What does Videogamey mean to you?

[Hussar]

I'm not responcible for what you don't understand.

Quote:
Again, if a term does not aid in understanding, why use it?
You've already answered your own question.

Quote:
What benefit is derived from using a term you know will be misunderstood and will only piss off the reader?
I'm not responsible for what you get pissed off about.

Nice. So, you have no resposiblity to make yourself understood. It's all up to the listener to understand you. Wow. That's an interesting take on communication.

 

[AllisterH]

Well,the only definition I can see from this thread is.

"did this mechanic come from 1e or OD&D? No? Then it's videogamey"

 

[Coldwyn]

As a side-note: The whole "videogamey" diskussion here reminds me how far videogames have advanced, especially crpgs. I doubt anyone thinks about older generation games like Ultima when using the term.

 

[Umbran]

Just different tactics to control conversation, AFAICT.

Um, dude. Dismissing a whole category of argument like that is also a tactic to control the conversation. Please, let us not get into pot/kettle territory.

There's at least one entire class of word that currently has no current meaning to speak of, other than to insult - the racial epithet. Sure, the words have an origin, at one time it may have meant something, but at this point they really mean only, "that dirty somethingorother".

Not that "videogamey" is quite at that level. I won't claim it is meaningless. I would claim that it is rather too broad to be particularly useful. It requires someone to ask you for more detail to understand the particular feelings. I would just prefer that if folks have an opinion, they choose words that convey it more completely and clearly.

Sure, you can say, 'It is too videogamey," and mean something.

But with minimal extra effort, you could instead say, "The power structure reminds me of MMORPGs like 'City of Heroes', and I find that uninspiring in a tabletop game." Or maybe, "It seems to me too focused on the combat action, one encounter after another. Relentless, like a side-scroller videogame, with too little focus on the narrative we're trying to create."

No, I don't need a dissertation. But if you want to express your opinions to other people, you should at least not force them to ask inevitable questions.

Unless, of course, you want your opinions to be pigeonholed. If so, by all means, use a quick and easy term that requires no thought and leads others want to just stack your opinions with all the others expressed in exactly the same way.

You have individual thoughts and feelings and opinions that are worth expressing? Then express them as individual thoughts and feelings and opinions. Don't lump them in with everyone else's.

 

[Budalic]

Absolutely not. Show me all the people clamouring that the word has no meaning, who also are not opposed to the meaning, and you will have made your point.

Instead, we have only people who, apparently, think the word has no meaning, and who are also opposed to the meaning. That's a major contradiction, and one that has come up before. "Pokemount" comes readily to mind as a term that brought up the exact same arguments.
RC

There is also posibility that said people think that videogamey doesn't mean gamist. So they are insulted because you use word in demeaning fashon to both video games and games you apply term videogamey to, while it has no meaning to them.
The media of videogames is limited, true, but there is also simulationist/gamist distinction among videogames. You are essentialy applying (It is spelled this way, right?) stereotype to videogames. And that's insulting to people who play them and see distinction among various games.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Well,the only definition I can see from this thread is.

"did this mechanic come from 1e or OD&D? No? Then it's videogamey"

Nah.

First off, Celebrim extracted the "definitions offered" posts from the "Nuh uh" posts, and....surprise, surprise....there was a strong link of commonality to the "defintions offered" posts.

(Again, exactly what was seen in the "pokemount" and "fluff" debates.)

Second off, there is no post (apart from yours) with that content.

Third off, it has certainly been suggested that some 1e/OD&D mechanics are "videogamey". Hit points spring immediately to mind. The discussion above also suggests that some mechanics of tournament modules (which have also appeared, if memory serves, in the BD&D sample dungeon) are "videogamey".....i.e., "unless the group gains the golden key/is level X nothing they do can open this door".


RC

 

[Hussar]

A word does not need to have a specific meaning in order to be seen as perjorative. Seeing a particular word or phrase used over and over and over again, always with a negative connotation means that that word or phrase will gain that negative meaning even if the word has nothing at all to do with any literal definition.

I find it really, really interesting that you NEVER see someone using sloppy shorthand to state why they like something. Not once have I seen someone feel the need to use these terms in a positive way.

Sure, you can keep presenting this as a "free speech" sort of thing. You absolutely have the right to use any term you like. But, don't complain when you get dogpiled for using it.

I wonder why you never see anyone feel the need to use sloppy shorthand to say something nice. Hrm.

 

[Hussar]

Um, dude. Dismissing a whole category of argument like that is also a tactic to control the conversation. Please, let us not get into pot/kettle territory.

There's at least one entire class of word that currently has no current meaning to speak of, other than to insult - the racial epithet. Sure, the words have an origin, at one time it may have meant something, but at this point they really mean only, "that dirty somethingorother".
/snip

Wow, talk about telepathy. I had written almost this EXACT argument but wasn't sure if it was against the politics thing on the board to mention it.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Um, dude. Dismissing a whole category of argument like that is also a tactic to control the conversation. Please, let us not get into pot/kettle territory.

That is a fair accessment....I said as much:

It is an attempt to make sure that what's at stake in the conversation isn't lost.​

That is definitely a clear statement of what I hope to achieve, which is definitely about controlling an aspect of the conversation.

No, I don't need a dissertation.

Newspeak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia is happy to provide one, should you change your mind.

 

[Celebrim]

Perhaps a better analogy, then?

Saying, "It's videogamey," is about as useful as saying, "It's like a book," or, depending on the context, possibly, "It's like a bad book." Without any further elaboration, it is simply a statement of opinion from the speaker (and IMO, a vague one at that).

Well, props for actually making a better analogy than anyone else that has tried. The reason that 'book-y' is a better analogy that 'automobile-y' or 'giraffe-y' is that it seems to have a the features that the term 'videogamey' has, for example, they both seem to be common feelings people have in response to RPGs in a way that 'automobile-y' and 'giraffe-y' are not. In fact, in this thread, someone tried to define 'videogamey' as being the opposite of 'book-y', although the term they used was 'novelesque'.

That definition didn't go very far because he then had to define 'novelesque', which is no easier than defining 'videogamey' in the first place. It could be, once we understand what is meant by both words better that 'novelesque' really is the opposite of 'videogamey', but at this point we just don't know what to make of that comparison.

The analogy I would have used is 'cinematic', which is a word that I use in a very precise way, but is in general usage by gamers in much more general ways. The only real difference between the term is that 'cinematic' doesn't draw out 'the haters' quite as much because its usually used to mean a positive attribute of the system rather than a negative one.

That's why I believe that it doesn't add much to a discussion. In order to have a meaningful exchange of views and opinions, you need to get to the specifics behind the statement.

Which is I think what we are trying to do. Some people seem viscerally opposed to the project.

It's the answers to that question that generate meaningful discussion, so again, in my opinion, it is more productive to delve straight into the underlying issues.

In this case, I think that the term is in wide use precisely because the underlying issues are difficult to describe. People don't necessarily know why it feels 'videogamey' to them, or they may know but have difficulty articulating it because the specialized language that would make it easy is either unknown to them or else doesn't exist.

No doubt, it may eventually be possible to arrive at a consensus as to the specific meaning (or meanings) of "videogamey", but until then, I think that posters who are more interested in discussing the issue than expressing an opinion may as well go into greater detail immediately instead of assuming that everyone else will know what they mean.

Oddly, that's what they've been doing in this thread.