Do castles make sense in a world of dragons & spells?

[Theo R Cwithin]

Feystep requires line of sight and that the ramparts are more than 30 feet tall, the reall issue with Eladrin is jail. Dark Oubliettes seem to be the only answer.

...or hoods.

-O

... or gouge out their eyes.

"Preeetty little eladrinnn won't be needing thossse preeetty little eladrinsess' eyesess anymore, will he hee heee?"

 

[Celebrim]

The simplest way to foil invisibility, with minimal impact to livability, is with a bag of flour, powdered chalk, or similar substance, deployed at each entrance to the castle and perhaps at checkpoints inside. For the cost of some chalk, a pail of water, and a towel (so guests can wipe the chalk off their feet once inside), you can make life very difficult for invisible intruders. Moreover, you can deploy this defense as needed and mop it up when the threat recedes.

Foiled by spider climb or flight, both available at low level and both part of a generally useful infiltration suite of spells. Doesn't actually therefore put a huge burden on the infiltrator.

Furthermore, while the impact on livability is low, its really annoying to live with as sooner or later the powder will get everywhere. I know that's what maids are for, but still. I can see this tactic deployed only in response to a known infiltration, not as a standing defense.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

... or gouge out their eyes.

"Preeetty little eladrinnn won't be needing thossse preeetty little eladrinsess' eyesess anymore, will he hee heee?"

The idea certainly has merit, however, there are situations where you want to keep the ealdrin intact and so put him in a sphercial tower, transparent in all directions and all standable surfaces are 31 feet away

 

[Celebrim]

(You know what doesn't make sense in a high-magic world? Polearms. Polearms are utterly unwieldy weapons except when used in close formation, and in a world where fireball-slingers are common, close formation is suicidal. While castles might still exist, I would expect battles in the open field to look a lot more modern than medieval.)

This is part of the general case of, 'If fireball is common, traditional infantry tactics are obseleted.', that D&D has long had problems with. A former DM of mine went exactly in that direction, such that fantasy warfare more resembled WWI and WWII than ancient warfare.

Since I consider that an undesirable result (at least for my campaign), I have this:

HEAVY INFANTRY [GENERAL, TACTICAL, FIGHTER]
You are trained to perform as heavy infanty.
Prerequisite: Tactics 4 Ranks, Base attack bonus +1
Benefits: You are capable of performing the following tactics.
Legionaire: When formed in a shield wall, you gain a +2 bonus on reflex saves against spells or spell-like effects, and you are treated as possessing evasion. (If exposed to any effect which allows a reflex save for half damage, on a successful save the character takes no damage.)
Professional: You can take 10 on a tactics skill checks to fight in Close Formation, Fight in Ranks, Form a Phalanx, or Form a Shield Wall regardless of distractions.
Weight of the Formation: You gain a +1 circumstance bonus to hit for each rank of heavy infantry formed up behind you, to a maximum of a +3 bonus.

Not all of that is understandable outside of context, but what it does that is relevant to your point is give evasion to members of a formation, thus countering the tendency of fireball to increase dispersion and returning the simulation to a more intuitive state (ei, fantasy warfare remains more like the ancient warfare that helped inspire the game).

 

[S'mon]

I'd think bead-curtain doors would be an effective way of spotting invisible inflitrators.

Spider Climb & Fly are usually bigger problems for the defense though, IME, along with the huge disparity between high and low level characters. The usual thing in high level pre-4e IME was for a squad of high level characters, possibly PCs, to fly into the castle and then simply kill all the defenders. This kind of thing seems much less likely in 4e - a few dozen 3rd level human guards or their 11th level minion equivalents in a well defended location are a tough prospect for PCs below Epic level.

 

[coyote6]

For regular teleport (i.e., not dimension door or greater teleport), where you have to have an accurate mental picture of your destination, rearranging the furniture and changing the decor a lot can lessen the chances of incoming teleports succeeding. Add illusions to really mess with things. Plus, the fashion forward members of your court are kept happy.

Also, you can't teleport into a solid object, right? I've wondered if hanging paper strips or strings everywhere in your important areas, such that no area large enough for a teleporter doesn't have a string hanging in it, would be effective. No one could teleport into that area without having their body intersect a solid object, so that ought to prevent teleports from working. Be a bit annoying, and would tangle up the spikey armor types horribly, but hey, if it keeps out the assassin wizards...

 

[Ariosto]

in a world where fireball-slingers are common, close formation is suicidal.

YMMV, perhaps depending on rules-set, but ...

Unless the formation is also deep, as in the multiple ranks typical with a pike phalanx, it tends (at least in old D&D) to be rather a waste of fireballs in my opinion. I would rather target that limited resource at high-level fighters and monsters. The heroes and superheroes and lords, as well as their retainers, can cut through masses of normal men like hot knives through butter, putting the survivors to panicked flight -- and do that from sunup to sundown. For that matter, ordinary troops are capable of dealing with their ilk (but not so much of taking on trolls and giants and other fantastic figures, much less those immune to non-magical weapons).

In 1E AD&D, it just becomes more and more "overkill" even versus deep formations of mundane men at arms as the caster rises in level. The number of 3rd-level spells a magic-user can prepare hits 5 at 13th level and does not increase again until 26th.

In any case, I would say that more common impediments would be bows, catapults, cannon, crossbows and handguns -- none of which did away with pikes until the introduction of the socket bayonet spelled the replacement of "pike and shot" formations with shallow lines maximizing musket firepower (by retaining tight files).

Also, many polearms (the halberd, for instance) would be used in rather loose formations, as indicated in the 1E PHB.

 

[Haltherrion]

Another solution is to trap the hell out of all entrances... but that's less fun, and if the enemies can avoid traps, it doesn't work so well.

And traps would likely have a good chance to trap friendlies or at least cause wear-paths that might make it clear where the traps are.

I had some pit traps concealed in a murky pool of water guarding a goblin lair once. The players had a chance to notice from the mud tracked from the pool that the goblins all entered and exited the pool on one side to avoid the pit.

For detecting invisible folks, could be noise maker or other signalling trap rather than a harmful one of course.

 

[Haltherrion]

Unless the formation is also deep, as in the multiple ranks typical with a pike phalanx, it tends (at least in old D&D) to be rather a waste of fireballs in my opinion. I would rather target that limited resource at high-level fighters and monsters. The heroes and superheroes and lords, as well as their retainers, can cut through masses of normal men like hot knives through butter, putting the survivors to panicked flight -- and do that from sunup to sundown. For that matter, ordinary troops are capable of dealing with their ilk (but not so much of taking on trolls and giants and other fantastic figures, much less those immune to non-magical weapons).

It will depend on the particular army compositions of course but having a 20' radius chunk of men fall (or several for multiple fireballs from multiple casters or one firing sequentially) is likely to have a very detrimental effect on morale. Cause a unit to panic and things can fall apart quickly, despite the overall numbers.

Or consider a not so rare encounter in the middle ages where well trained and armed infantry could hold off heavy cavalry (such as at Hastings which was a near-run thing for William). Punch a hole in the infantry line with some fire balls as the cavalry charges up and suddenly the cavalry is much more effective again. The standard tactic of dispersing units in the face of area of effect attacks also makes infantry much less likely to resist cavalry so it can be a quandary for them.

I always thought horrid wilting was much nastier against armies in the later systems for high level casters.

 

[Ariosto]

Also, you can't teleport into a solid object, right? I've wondered if hanging paper strips or strings everywhere in your important areas, such that no area large enough for a teleporter doesn't have a string hanging in it, would be effective. No one could teleport into that area without having their body intersect a solid object, so that ought to prevent teleports from working. Be a bit annoying, and would tangle up the spikey armor types horribly, but hey, if it keeps out the assassin wizards...

Taut wire -- like a cheese slicer -- is what I recall from a long-ago article on the subject in The Dragon (or maybe White Dwarf, as I think it came up in each at least once).

Another thing I recall is the general utility of underground strongholds -- so perhaps your dungeons could follow from your dragons, eh? (There was a movie a few years ago -- "Reign of Fire"? -- about post-modern humans whose civilization had been destroyed by very powerful dragons.)