WotC and brick and mortar retail stores - Greg Leeds weighs in

[Dragon Snack]

Dragon Snack Games has been open for a little over a year now. That's new in game store terms, but since the average game store apparently only lasts 18 months, I'm getting close to being a veteran.

My 4E sales stink, I've tried having groups run games in my store and I even sell it at 20% off. I can't even find a DM for Encounters (at least not until April 14th). It's Magic that keeps my doors open. No, I don't play 4E, but I didn't play Magic until after I was running events last year and I still rarely do (surprised everyone by playing FNM last month for the foil). I sell lots of video games (more than D&D books) too, which I certainly don't play (even if I wanted to, I don't have time).

It may be alien to most of you, but people will pay a premium to support a LGS they like. I still think it's odd when it happens too, but it does.

FWIW, game stores get D&D books 10 days early if they have a Core or Advanced level organizer. Doesn't even need to be for D&D, I got my PHB3's 10 days early (before I signed up for Encounters) thanks to my Magic events.

I'd also like to point out something about Barnes & Noble and street dates.

First, I am a Barnes & Noble employee and have been for 13 years. I do know what I am talking about, when I am talking about that company.

There are "street dates", which are the dates that a company says a book will be released on.

Then, there are "Strict On-Sale" dates. These are different, at least in their terminology and usage at B&N.

Not a single D&D rulebook received since I started with the company has been a SOS title.

<snip>

Now a "street date" is not such an agreement. <snip> There is NO contractual agreement about breaking "street dates".

Wow, totally explains why the book trade breaks street dates all the time (although I have to believe your PTB know they aren't supposed to, even without the contracts, because not all street dates are broken). FWIW, if someone in the hobby channel breaks a street date they can get hammered just like you can with a SOS date.

So we're playing with 2 sets of rules. Not that I couldn't figure that out, but that just cements it. Do you mind if I quote your post on an industry board (if not, I'll paraphrase)?

 

[Glyfair]

I did find it worthwhile to learn that retailers are currently forced to host WotC promotion events to get a bonus that online stores get for free - the possibility to sell new product as early as possible.

I think this is not quite accurate. My understanding is that the main change is that WotC is now allowing Premier Stores to sell product 11 days early. The requirements to be considered a premier store have required running the various WotC prestige events (such as Worldwide D&D Gamedays) have been in place for over a year, at least. There is just a bigger advantage to being a Premier store now.

Plus, that advantage will allow you to get product out there before the online stores, not at the same time. Very few online stores have the product two weeks in advance (in fact, most of the street date breakers have been brick and mortar stores outside the US, IIRC).

I will note that I was in my local Premiere store the week before the "official" release date for the PHB III. I picked up Hammerfast and was told about the change. He also mentioned they were very surprised to have sold out of the PHB III within a couple of days.

 

[Glyfair]

You could get it from local game stores a couple of weeks early, because any game store that participates in organized play events gets to break street date now.

My understanding is that it is not that simple. My other FLGS is not a premiere store. He was years ago, but stopped because it was a big headache. You have to take pictures of the area, have a certain number of permanent tables set up as a play area (he is also a bookstore and the gaming area multi-tasks especially during his regular book signings).

Of course, when I told him about the street date advantage he was musing that it might be worthwhile to re-enroll in the premiere store program.

 

[JohnSnow]

Where I live, there's 3 gaming stores of note within a half-hour drive that have been around for decades. Two blocks from one of them is another upstart. There's also plenty of bookstores and comic shops that ALSO sell D&D stuff.

Two of the old gaming shops get my business. Why? They're clean, well-lit, and staffed by nice, hygienic people with good customer service skills. The third...is not. The sad thing is that everyone (including the other two shop owners) knows it.

When it comes to D&D Encounters, the two "good" shops have "opted out" because it's on Wednesdays - their traditional night for boardgame play or Warhammer Fantasy Battle. This makes me tempted to give the other place a try just to get my playing fix (I'm usually the DM for my group), but I've had enough of he and his staff's surly attitude to never want to set foot in there again. And the sad part is he's probably one of the people who bitches and moans that 4e is a failure, because nobody's buying stuff at his store. And that's because (duh!) the guy's a dick. How? He's a typical old-school elitist gamer - the kind of person who drives people to bail on D&D rather than deal with the people who play it. They're hosting an Encounters game there (probably to boost flagging business), but that store has screwed the pooch so badly on customer service over the years, they'd probably be better off closing.

Down the street from him is a little startup place that operates as an internet cafe, but also hosts D&D (and other) games (and sells the products too), and is, by all accounts, a pretty friendly place. They're hosting D&D Encounters as well, but they're not starting until April.

By contrast, about an hour from where I live, there's a Barnes & Noble that is participating in D&D Encounters. It's clean, well-lit, and had a game start up on St. Patrick's Day. It's employees have also clearly bathed, not just this century, but this year!

And the FLGS's wonder why they're losing this war...

 

[wedgeski]

This thread has been extremely educational. Thanks to everyone who has posted!

 

[vagabundo]

You know FLGS's should hire smart, charasmatic, fun GMs to constantly run games in store, so most evenings there are games happening. Create a real fun atmosphere and people will spend. maybe even charge a fiver for a drop-in game.

It is something that could really encourage gaming (and spending on gaming)- I notice the Games Workshop store in town always has tonnes of kids in the window, playing and painting, and it is always packed. This is a busy main street in Dublin.

 

[Thanlis]

I'd also like to point out something about Barnes & Noble and street dates.

Thanks, that's excellent stuff!

 

[Moltari]

From the small amount of first- and second-hand access to retailers' internal discussions that I have, I think that the relative success/failure of 4E, and of these event-driven sales, is about 95% attributable to the attitude of the FLGS owner/staff toward 4E and, to a lesser degree, the official Organized Play initiative.

It seems that enthusiastic early adopters of 4E have had their expectations met with huge sales and big successful in-store events. Meanwhile, grudging 4E haters have had their expectations met with lackluster sales and ghost-town events.

I can Totally Agree with Big Mike on this one. in Calgary there's a little shop called Myth Gaming, while their selection is smaller then one of the other HUGE hobby shops in calgary, i shop there for one reason.

the Staff at Myth Gaming is amazing, they're knowledgeable, polite, host play events, know release schedules for 4e, and other games i play. they provide a great atmosphere in store. atleast 1/3rd of their shop is set up as Play space for their costumers. they're very passionate about D&D 4E, and it shows, i went in last week to pick up a copy of PHB3 for my players and they'd sold out. i knew they'd ordered a fair amount of them too, so now i'm waiting for more to come in.

personaly i think the store's enthusiasm for the products they sell, and they're ability to host in store events is what's attributed to the bulk of their product sales. i know the atmosphere and staff there have made me change where i shop.

anyways, just my 2, rather jumbled and possibly disjointed, cents.

 

[pawsplay]

I think it is worth considering that the dot-com bubble may have changed the hobby store in important ways. First, I think excess geek cash led to a culture built on rapid sales of fad items, which is just not sustainable. I think, reasonably, a hobby store should plan to operate year-round primarily as a specialty retail store, with the occasion ka-boom when something big lands. Second, once upon a time, it was semi-acceptable to live your dream as a comic book store/game store/whatever guy. Since that time, the low end of the wage scale has slid considerably compared to the rest of the economy; what was once not a livable income is now barely an income. An adjustment to minimum wage has probably helped. What has happened, I think, is that those devotees have realized they can now live their dreams making some serious bank in computers, autocad, game design, e-commerce, etc. Thus, it is likely the only long term industry person working at the store is the owner, and maybe the general manager if there is one. To be successful, a modern game store has to be a fairly person-centered operation, since there is no feasible way I can imagine to hold onto truly knowledgeable staff with good people skills. Instead, the owner/manager has to be the heart of the things, dispensing needed knowledge, constantly retraining staff as they graduate from school/move away/sell out to the Man, etc. I think in a fairly populous area, during a good economy, you could probably staff a couple of dudes at a nice hourly wage and it would totally be worth it from a business standpoint. Sadly, I think the current economic climate dictates holding onto less staff and toughing things out for the next year or two. Eventually, the death of retail stores will create new regions for growth... a good game and comic store could sprout up somewhere between where an old Waldenbooks and another dead game store used to be. when times are bad, you have to expect the likelihood of some creative destruction before things got better.

 

[JohnSnow]

You know FLGS's should hire smart, charasmatic, fun GMs to constantly run games in store, so most evenings there are games happening. Create a real fun atmosphere and people will spend. maybe even charge a fiver for a drop-in game.

It is something that could really encourage gaming (and spending on gaming)- I notice the Games Workshop store in town always has tonnes of kids in the window, playing and painting, and it is always packed. This is a busy main street in Dublin.

Agreed!

My wife has frequently commented that it probably wouldn't hurt to hire a bunch of hot friendly nerd-girls (and believe me, they exist) as sales people. And not to play to stereotypes, but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

I also find myself reminded of Virtual World, which was probably just ahead of its time when they opened back in the mid-90s. Back then, they had to spend lots (and I mean LOTS!) of money on the network to allow full motion video-gaming over the net. Nowadays, you could just set up a bunch of X-Boxes (or other Videogame system) for cheap and focus entirely on the environment. Of course, VW was all about Video games, but there's not really any reason you couldn't do both.