Pathfinder 1E Sandboxes? Forked from Paizo reinvents hexcrawling

[Ariosto]

pemerton, that is why substituting "sandbox" made sense -- it avoided the confusion that "D&D campaign" might have caused. That is what I explained on the earlier occasion. It was a useful term to identify a kind of game (e.g., Rob Conley's Points of Light setup).

That is, until people who just plain want to bash anything other than a story-line game no matter what it's called -- the successors to, or even the same ones as, those who once treated "D&D" as a cuss word because it was supposedly "not real role-playing" -- undertook to redefine "sandbox" as a straw man so much easier to beat up.

I call my own game a Dungeons & Dragons campaign because that is what it is.

The fershlugginer bass-ackwardness of people going out of their way to tell me I can't do that because it somehow interferes with their right to call their games whatever the heck they like is just too much. People calling people closed-minded, when their brains are buttoned up like freaking fallout shelters? Give me a break already.

 

[catsclaw227]

The fershlugginer bass-ackwardness of people going out of their way to tell me I can't do that because it somehow interferes with their right to call their games whatever the heck they like is just too much. People calling people closed-minded, when their brains are buttoned up like freaking fallout shelters? Give me a break already.

I haven't seen anyone state that you can't play the game in the style that you want. If anything, most people say things like "it's great if you like running your games like that, but my group prefers a different style" or "I've played straight sandboxes and I have played more linear games, but mostly our game is somewhere in between" or "my play experience differs from yours".

None of these statements say that you aren't playing the game correctly, but calling others bass-ackward because they do things differently doesn't help anything.

But just because you play it more in accordance with the way Gary played doesn't mean that your style of playing AD&D is truer.

This is looking more like a clash of different playstyles, and even more like a clash of current playstyles.

In my opinion, everyone is playing the game the right way, as long as they are enjoying themselves, the group is engaged, and there's adventure and laughter and tension and challenge. When the session is over and players chat over email or forums, or if a player calls a DM about some new thing for their character, then the players/DM are doing something right.

 

[AllisterH]

Here's a question.

Is the recent 4e product, Hammerfast a "sandbox" adventure?

Given all the complaints and arguments about linear adventures, I'm kinda surprised at the lack of discussion with regard to Hammerfast which bills itself as simply an adventure site and not an advneture module/path.

 

[Mark]

Here's a question.

Is the recent 4e product, Hammerfast a "sandbox" adventure?

Given all the complaints and arguments about linear adventures, I'm kinda surprised at the lack of discussion with regard to Hammerfast which bills itself as simply an adventure site and not an advneture module/path.

Haven't seen it. Describe it in some detail. Does it link events in the manner of a linear adventure or simply detail locations allowing gameplay to link them at the table based on player decisions?

 

[AllisterH]

Haven't seen it. Describe it in some detail. Does it link events in the manner of a linear adventure or simply detail locations allowing gameplay to link them at the table based on player decisions?

The Latter.

There have been a couple of Reviews here on Enworld.

Hammerfast

Perhaps I'm missing something but it really does sound like what people are clamoring more for...

 

[Mark]

The Latter.

There have been a couple of Reviews here on Enworld.

Hammerfast

Perhaps I'm missing something but it really does sound like what people are clamoring more for...

That review makes it seem like it supports a sandbox-leaning style of play. Do you have it yourself?

 

[AllisterH]

That review makes it seem like it. Do you have it yourself?

Yep, picked it up yesterday after reading my friend's copy which he got at the Encounter thing....Ironically, Honestly, I'm kind of wondering "HOW" newbie DMs are going to use this since for a long time, players have been trained on the Adventure Path..Seriously, if you're new to DMing, I think you might be actually have more trouble with Hammerfast than KotS...

One of the things about it is that it is much closer in feel to say the old D&D Gazetter than say a typical city guide.....It kind of straddles the line between the two...

I like it...and it bills itself as an "A Dwarven Outpost ADVENTURE site" so it is targetted directly at the DM unlike say a "A guide to Freeport" but I'm honestly wondering if this is what people were talking about "I want more sandbox adventures".

There's no real overlying plot point to the "adventure" but I'm not sure if it is what people would call a "sandbox".

 

[Mark]

Yep, picked it up yesterday after reading my friend's copy which he got at the Encounter thing...

How much of the "encounters" are combat oriented?

There's no real overlying plot point to the "adventure" but I'm not sure if it is what people would call a "sandbox".

I think that's mostly because of the misappropriation of the term, transferring it from a style of play to a physical product (which is not a sandbox but can support a sandbox style of play).

 

[Reynard]

Perhaps I'm missing something but it really does sound like what people are clamoring more for...

It may well be. If the description is accurate and the Kingmaker AP turns out to be a sandbox-style adventure, then those two facts together would at least indicate that the major publishers are at least aware of people waxing nostalgic about adventure paths.

Something that needs to be reiterated now and again is this: adventures aren't sandboxes. Adventures happen in sandboxes. You can have a fairly linear adventure within a sandbox setting, and you can have a "sandboxy" segment to an otherwise linear adventure path.

A good way to tell the difference is to compare 1E and many 2E modules. Most 1E modules were really just town and dungeon mini settings. Any "plot" was a few "suggested hooks" paragraphs at the beginning of the module. Many 2E modules were, by contrast, true adventures. They cam with plot built in and many times pre-determined outcomes. I blame the popularity of DragonLance in general (which I think is basically the dawn of the 2E era, even if 2E wasn't released for another couple years).

 

[Ariosto]

I blame the popularity of DragonLance in general (which I think is basically the dawn of the 2E era, even if 2E wasn't released for another couple years).

More like another half-decade, putting DL smack dab in the middle of the years between the 1E DMG's 1979 debut and the 1989 release of 2E.