Important: Please Read! Changes Are Coming!

[Obryn]

And so far, I get use out of sigs a thousand times over than I do with the Gamers Seeking Gamers feature. So excuse me if I'm not jumping for joy right now.

Honestly, do you think it's fair to Morrus to advertise a business - for sake of argument, one involving the buying and selling of miniatures - on his privately-owned forums for free? Lots of people pay for banner ads for the privilege to do so, which are more expensive, more block-able, and quite possibly less effective than a signature.

Wouldn't you say it's fair and reasonable to pay for the right to advertise on a site?

I can see how folks who use their signatures for little jokes, edition digs, and useful links might not think it's worthwhile to pay for a signature. But someone who's advertising in theirs should certainly see the value there.

-O

 

[Morrus]

2. I don't know what I'm getting for $6.

Well, $3. It's $3 more but includes the (existing) $3 subscription. Sorry, it may be that I wasn't clear on that; the existiing $3 subscription will remain in place.

For myself, I use this site's message boards and enjoy them. When those functions go behind the pay wall, I'll stop using this site and move on to somewhere else. I hope that day never comes.

There are disaster stories all over the web, from organizations large and small, which tried moving everything behind a pay wall. It doesn't work. There's no danger of me doing that.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

Well, $3. It's $3 more but includes the (existing) $3 subscription. Sorry, it may be that I wasn't clear on that; the existiing $3 subscription will remain in place.

I've failed my knowledge check again. Can I take 20?

 

[Fifth Element]

I'm not sure I see the relevance. Are you suggesting that potential revenue streams be ignored and that the site return to a barely-afloat begging status? I'm somewhat unclear as to why you brought that up?

Okay, pretend I didn't write that part. Could you address the main body of my post?

 

[Mistwell]

Okay, pretend I didn't write that part. Could you address the main body of my post?

I thought he answered it in the first post: "Limiting sigs to subscribers - a feature that I tend to find distracting - seemed to be the right choice. " There are probably other reasons, but he did give that one as a reason.

 

[Oryan77]

Honestly, do you think it's fair to Morrus to advertise a business - for sake of argument, one involving the buying and selling of miniatures - on his privately-owned forums for free?

I don't make a banner ad in my sig with pictures. I made my link as unobtrusive as I could so I don't annoy anyone. I also don't spam threads with useless posts. I write legitimate (and ungodly long) posts. If someone happens to see the sig, great!

I understand everyone wants a piece of the pie. But honestly, no, if I ran a website and someone did the same thing without being annoying about it (or being in direct competition with me), I would have no problem at all if he made a few bucks from it. I'd be glad to help out...especially during a recession like this.

In fact, I have a forum for my commerical website (nobody uses though). Anyone is free to post links to their site there as long as it is not in competition with what I am trying to sell: http://rpglocker.proboards.com/index.cgi

This website did not start out as a business. It was and is a forum. This "forum" wouldn't have become what it is if it wasn't for all of us visiting it and telling other people to visit it. We helped Morrus get to the point where he could possibly make money from this website. And if he can make money from it, that is awesome.

I contribute by not blocking banner ads and occasionally clicking them. I contribute by making posts and telling other people that ENworld is a good place to go to read/discuss D&D. Therefore, I partly contributed to Morrus getting to the point where he could make money from his site. If someone is mad that I am not paying for the text that I have that links to a commercial website while I am (hopefully) making interesting posts, then that's just greedy. Morrus says that is not his reasoning, so I am not referring to him as being greedy. I'm just speaking in general.

Don't get me wrong, if I could afford to pay for a banner ad here, I would. But I can't right now, and I didn't think the sig was a big deal. Especially since Morrus was cool enough to have a Marketplace forum where we could buy & sell stuff. But if it is a big deal because people should be profiting off of my sig, then he can just tell me to remove it. But it seems it will be removed anyway since I won't be a subscriber.

*edit* Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the thread. I was just answering Obryn. If this is an annoyance, I don't mind responding to PMs instead.

 

[Fifth Element]

I thought he answered it in the first post: "Limiting sigs to subscribers - a feature that I tend to find distracting - seemed to be the right choice. " There are probably other reasons, but he did give that one as a reason.

That answer doesn't make sense to me. Presumably the distracting sigs are the overly large or colourful ones, or those with pics or links etc. Those would still exist, but only from subscribers. If that's the issue, simply eliminating images from sigs and limiting the size is the answer. Otherwise you still have the problem, just a bit less of it.

 

[Fifth Element]

I am a bit surprised at those who feel that Morrus' explanations and revelations are anything but his right to run his site any way he wants, projecting nefarious and unethical judgements upon his plans.

No argument that it's his right to do whatever he wants with the site, but starting a thread and inviting comments...invites comments.

There are no ethics to debate here, just business practices. Possible customers are telling him that they don't like where this is going. That taking away something from your potential customers that you used to give for free has implications to the customer base. If he chooses to ignore this input, that's absolutely up to him. But it doesn't mean it shouldn't be said.

It does make me feel a bit squirmy though, because back when he was asking for donations, some people raised the question of why we should donate money to a for-profit enterprise? The response was that EN Publishing was for-profit, but ENWorld was not. It was just supposed to cover its costs. If that's changed now, I'd appreciate a clarification.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Besides, If I really want to keep a lump sum each year instead of a subscription, I could easily just buy a pre-paid credit card from my local department store, Target, or Wal-mart, and charge it to that. Not a big deal.

I'm adamantly opposed to Paypal, and won't let them anywhere near my financials. They're basically a non-FDIC bank, and there's lot of shenanigans with them, including as I recall some with ENW. For that reason, I've refused to get a membership here (since credit goes through them), despite being a long time poster.

I'm pretty sure this is the best idea I've ever heard, and if I can use it to pay without giving Paypal access to my info, you can be by the end of the week when I get paid I'll be getting a subscription. I still don't support Paypal, but I've been wanting to support ENW for a long time.

You may not be a mod anymore, but you're still awesome!

 

[Oryan77]

There are no ethics to debate here, just business practices. Possible customers are telling him that they don't like where this is going.

Yeah please don't anybody get me wrong. I'm just talking "business" and voicing an opinion. I wouldn't be speaking out if I wanted to see Morrus fail.

It was just supposed to cover its costs. If that's changed now, I'd appreciate a clarification.

Morrus stated months ago that he wants to live off the profits he can make by turning ENworld into a profitable business rather than just a free forum. That's why he's making changes and trying to provide features people would be willing to pay for.