Pathfinder 1E What kind of Pathfinder Psionics would you like to see from Paizo?

[Ahnehnois]

A lot of thoughts involve using alternative systems. Why add complications?

One of the strengths of 3.X/PF is that not all the classes work the same way. Many people don't like the core magic system and want an alternative, which psionics can provide. And, frankly, there are enough reflavored spontaneous casters out there.

Whenever I think of psionics portrayed in movies, books, etc (X-Men, Star Wars, and so forth) they never strain themselves from using their powers *unless* they attempt to do something beyond their normal capabilities. I think it would be cool to have a Psionic system where you can use your powers at-will, or risk fatigue/exhaustion/unconsciousness if you unleash power beyond your level (i.e. burning yourself out from "overchanneling").

I think a mix of at-will/fatigue mechanics is best.

I'd also like to see incarnum-like permanent abilities that take up magic item slots (IMO a great idea that just wasn't that well implemented, and one that fits perfectly with psions who should not be wearing a ton of magic items).

 

[Glade Riven]

So...Tome of magic + Incarnum? Or something closer to BoNS reflavoring the martial system as psypowers? Actually, that may work...the swordsage already has rules for swapping out manuevers for spells, and since spells & psypowers were balanced against each other...I can see it working.

Then people complain "it's too much like 4e." Oh, well, can't please everyone.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

So...Tome of magic + Incarnum? Or something closer to BoNS reflavoring the martial system as psypowers? Actually, that may work...the swordsage already has rules for swapping out manuevers for spells, and since spells & psypowers were balanced against each other...I can see it working.

Then people complain "it's too much like 4e." Oh, well, can't please everyone.

Yeah, because Pathfinder is really in need of a Daily/Encounter/At-Will Power system. Perhaps Psionics could go from 1-30 just to be more like 4E

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

One of the strengths of 3.X/PF is that not all the classes work the same way. Many people don't like the core magic system and want an alternative, which psionics can provide. And, frankly, there are enough reflavored spontaneous casters out there.

Excellent point. The various power systems that 3rd presented was very cool and provided a lot of system wide depth. It was a missed opportunity in 4E to make each power source radically different (though some of that was done in PHB3 with Power Points).

I think a mix of at-will/fatigue mechanics is best.

I'd also like to see incarnum-like permanent abilities that take up magic item slots (IMO a great idea that just wasn't that well implemented, and one that fits perfectly with psions who should not be wearing a ton of magic items).

I think a fatigue system could work very well. Power points are a little like hit points: if you've got them, you continue on at 100% efficiency. A fatigue system could be very interesting...

 

[Ahnehnois]

So...Tome of magic + Incarnum? Or something closer to BoNS reflavoring the martial system as psypowers? Actually, that may work...the swordsage already has rules for swapping out manuevers for spells, and since spells & psypowers were balanced against each other...I can see it working.

Then people complain "it's too much like 4e." Oh, well, can't please everyone.

For all the 3e books and experience I have, I don't know much about Bo9S or ToM. My thoughts are more Psychic's Handbook/Incarnum, which might or might not be close to that. I don't see the "too much like 4e" complaint popping up too much no matter what.

 

[billd91]

I liked the 3.5 psionics system in general, but I wasn't too keen on the flavor of stuff in it. I don't think the powers had a very psionic feel (though I think they'd be useful as the core of a real spell-point system to replace slot casting) to me. Too many options for magical energy flying around to really feel psionic.

 

[humble minion]

I liked the 3.5 psionics system in general, but I wasn't too keen on the flavor of stuff in it. I don't think the powers had a very psionic feel (though I think they'd be useful as the core of a real spell-point system to replace slot casting) to me. Too many options for magical energy flying around to really feel psionic.

Yeah, I'd agree with this.

3.5 psionics felt too much like the book authors had just skimmed down the regular spell list and invented psionic equivalents to everything. Summoning, invisibility, shapechanging, energy area of effects, etc, etc, etc. I'd prefer psionics to have a greater flexibility within a smaller spectrum, if that makes sense. Limit psionic powers to the classic 'psychic' tropes - telekinesis, telepathy, mind control, ESP or heightened senses of various sorts, and maybe a small degree of body control/biofeedback stuff. Then let them modify and use them on the fly and at will, with the 'overchannelling + fatigue' option as mentioned above or something similar.

I'm no game designer so I won't even pretend to suggest a good mechanic for this (but I'll add my voice to the chorus saying that Star Wars Revised edition's VP mechanic sucked) - I'd just like to see psionicists that felt like psychics rather than wizards with a different spellcasting mechanic. I mean, they even had WANDS in 3.5 (I know they were called dorjes, but if it looks like a wand an quacks like a wand...)

 

[Ahnehnois]

I'd prefer psionics to have a greater flexibility within a smaller spectrum, if that makes sense. Limit psionic powers to the classic 'psychic' tropes - telekinesis, telepathy, mind control, ESP or heightened senses of various sorts, and maybe a small degree of body control/biofeedback stuff. Then let them modify and use them on the fly and at will, with the 'overchannelling + fatigue' option as mentioned above or something similar.

Skills accomplish this to a great degree. If your skill is "telekinesis", you can do several different thematically similar things with it, pick up objects, whack people with objects, pick up people and whack other people with them (possibly with feats enabling more powerful uses). Unlike a spellcaster, with skills you don't pick several totally unrelated spells each level, you get better in whatever your areas of focus are. It also makes more sense to modify such a skill "on the fly" than it does a spell ("Can I do X?" "Sure, just make a DC X Telekinesis check"). It's different, but it's still D&D.

Although I like this approach, I still think there's plenty of room for improvement over the Psychic's Handbook. I'd buy a PF version in a heartbeat.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I think the issue with 3.5 powers feeling too much like spells is less an issue with psionics and more an issue with everything being a spell.

When wizards cast telepathy and charm person, what exactly are telepath psions supposed to do to stand out?

It wasn't a case of psionics cheating off of Vance's homework, it was Vance being this horrible unsatiable beast that devoured everything it came across and churned it all into more arcane spells.

I stand by my thought that 3.5 and the power point system were by far the best system for psionics

 

[Greg K]

Force powers in Star Wars work fairly well, but it's not really meant to be compatible with D&D. Something like Green Ronin's Psychic Handbook, updated to Pathfinder, would probably be a better model to follow.

Yeah, Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook for PF is what I would want to see.