Modules, it turns out, apparently DO sell

[Azgulor]

Well, that's sort of my point - as written, this is not something the goblins do. You can, as a DM, use a bit of foresight to anticipate that the information given isn't enough to give the PCs an idea of what exactly was going on, and then embellish or add interactions to compensate, but this is not something that the adventure itself explicitly encourages. This is a clear example of something being written for the reader, rather than for the DM or player. The PCs experience the barest shell of this interaction and are unaware of the full story. The DM does not have the chance to explain (without stepping out from behind the 4th wall) what exactly has occurred, but the reader knows all of it.

Just because it's printed on the page, it's not expected that the PCs will know it. Perhaps it's purpose is:

A) To highlight the fact that while goblins are wicked, evil creatures, in Golarion they're to be played up as comical misfits & generally speaking - batcrap crazy as well.

B) Give the GM a chuckle as he/she reads.

C) A & B

Hell, there are plenty of things in your average adventure that PCs might learn through the course of the adventure. That doesn't mean that if they get to the end of the module, they're guaranteed to learn everything that they module says is possible for them to learn.


Seriously, does the module HAVE to specifically encourage a DM to do something? As a DM, I can play a module straight as written or I can make it my own by adding, tweaking, etc. as others have mentioned. If the publisher gives me snippets to riff off of that's a FEATURE not a flaw.

 

[lejanius]

I didn't go through this whole thread but here is all I have to add.

I don't really play Pathfinder, only on occasion as a player, never GM. I buy a lot of Pathfinder Modules.

Why? Well, there good, very good.

In my eyes good product sells. Paizo had a built in fan base from Dragon and Dungeon but this takes nothing away from their production values, which in my opinion, are the best in the industry. Pick up any of their modules (especially the adventure path's) and see what good art, layout, maps, etc. they have.

Well written, beautifully laid out and designed adventures sell. I have no proof of this but I own a lot of Paizo's stuff and I don't run it, so I buy it for those reasons...

 

[firesnakearies]

If I was going to look into Paizo's modules, which one or two specific adventures would you most highly recommend as being the best, most impressive representation of what makes their adventures awesome?

 

[pawsplay]

I've run a number of Pathfinder adventures, and I have to agree that I will often run across background information in the text (or even non-background stuff) that makes it more difficult for me to run the adventure as written. All of this fantastic story material is provided that is practically impossible for the players to discover during the course of normal play. This can lead to really odd, confusing moments such as that in Burnt Offerings where the PCs stand an almost inevitable chance of witnessing a sack of pickles fly out of a goblin tower. In actuality, the pickles were tossed out by a pair of goblin pickle thieves who assume they've been caught when they hear the alarm raised, but there's absolutely no way for the PCs to actually discover this (the only clue being that one of the pickle barrels has a hole in it). Sure, this is solid, amusing stuff to read if you're just browsing through the modules, but it certainly lends them a feeling of the adventure having been written to be read, rather than to be played. I have to imagine that a pretty significant chunk of Paizo's subscriber base is people who stand practically no chance of actually getting a group together and running a game, but like to imagine what it would be like to do just that while reading through the adventures.

I think the flying bag of pickles justifies itself. The backstory is there because such a thing demands explanation. The PCs can seek explanation if they are so inclined.

 

[Dannager]

If I was going to look into Paizo's modules, which one or two specific adventures would you most highly recommend as being the best, most impressive representation of what makes their adventures awesome?

Burnt Offerings is, itself, a really fantastic adventure, and a solid introduction to the world of Golarion at large. My quibbles with extraneous DM information are really minor, and my complaints are far dwarfed by my appreciation for their design. I mean, I'm basically whining about them giving DMs too much stuff to work with, which is hardly even a complaint to begin with.

I'm also a fan of Escape from Old Korvosa, if you want to check another Pathfinder adventure out, but that one is midway through an adventure path.

 

[Wicht]

If I was going to look into Paizo's modules, which one or two specific adventures would you most highly recommend as being the best, most impressive representation of what makes their adventures awesome?

Burnt offerings is a great adventure. Good luck finding one for less than $100.

More realistically, Crypt of the Everflame is an excellent 1st level introductory adventure for the PFRPG. The Kingmaker AP, currently being released, is shaping up into a very nice adventure path.


From their 3.5 days: I have enjoyed running the first Legacy of Fire, Howl of the Carrion King - in part because there are some excellent paper mini and terrain resources for it. We are currently on the 3rd book of the AP and so far so good.

For spy work - there's Tower of the Last Baron, which I think is good. And though I haven't read it, Entombed with the Pharoahs has recieved a lot of very good feedback.

 

[renau1g]

I would highly second Wicht's comment about the Kingmaker adventure path, however I might suggest starting with a single adventure before investing approx. $100-120 on the adventure. Crypt of the Everflame is great as a single one.

http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pa...les/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy89c9&source=search

 

[an_idol_mind]

While I think Crypt of the Everflame is a good module, my personal recommendation for a single module produced by Paizo recently would be its sequel adventure, Masks of the Living God. It's got both an interesting concept for an adventure and so many different ways of accomplishing the goal that it could probably be played a dozen times over with a new result each time.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Funny the discussion should turn to Crypt of the Everflame and Masks of the Living God.

The reason I got into the whole analysis of what Paizo was producing in the first post in the thread (and, inferrentially, what people were buying within Paizo's product lines) was in preparation for a new Podcast I'm working on entirely dedicated to Pathfinder. Most especially, the point of the analysis was to delve into what the focus of our Podcast should be.

As a consequence, we've decided that the focus (not exclusively, but primarily) will be on Paizo's adventure products for Pathfinder. Fully half to two-thirds of the podcast will be directed at Pathfinder GMs, not players. A player listening to the podcast will have the featured adventure THOROUGHLY AND IRRETRIEVABLY spoiled for them. We aren't just going to discuss a "few spoilers" in the Podcast -- we're going to review and deconstruct the module/adventure, sometimes at a genetic level of detail.

We'll have a lot more to say on these specific modules and the one that follows it in the trilogy, City of Golden Death in our first few episodes which should be up for download weekend after next. (Well - hopefully. The learning curve on Podcasting is a little steep at the start).

For now, I think there are some strong elements that both of those modules offer -- and I think there are some rather weak design elements to them as well which Pathfinder GMs should be alerted to. None of those weak elements with Crypt of the Everflame are terminal, though I'm not sure the same can be said for Masks of the Living God.

Whatever the case, whenever a GM is alerted to possible design issues ahead of time, he (or she) can take those issues into account when integrating a module into their Pathfinder campaigns. That's our misison statement on the Yet To be Titled Pathfinder Podcast.

 

[Wicht]

I'm going to be interested, Steel Wind, in hearing what you have to say about these. I think Crypt of the Everflame is an excellent introductory module. It likely does have some weaknesses, but I suspect they are tied into the fact it is designed almost as a "first time" adventure. Masks of the Living God however I would hesitate to recommend to starter DMs, which I find curious as it is the sequel to such an excellent introductory adventure. I think the learning curve for new DMs between Crypt and Masks is too steep in that Masks is much more open-ended, almost too much so. I think Masks would be an excellent adventure with the right crew, but getting that crew together might be a challenge for a first time DM who doesn't know how to keep a story moving when the Players start getting intuitively dull. That's my take anyway.