DMs: What Powers Do PCs Get That You Hate?

[firesnakearies]

A druid is a controller. Healing is not a controller's point.

A warlord is a leader. Healing is a leader's point.

If you were comparing BETWEEN leaders (Warlord vs. Bard), then sure. But just because the Druid has magic doesn't mean that the druid can/should be able to heal.

I like Druids more now than their incarnations in prior editions of D&D. They seem more focused thematically now, rather than just being a big kitchen sink of various nonsense intended to make a "different kind of cleric" with a vaguely nature-y feel.

Although, if they'd made Druids the leaders and Shamans the controllers, I wouldn't have had much of a problem with that, either. But I think it works best the way it is now in 4E.

 

[KarinsDad]

A druid is a controller. Healing is not a controller's point.

A warlord is a leader. Healing is a leader's point.

If you were comparing BETWEEN leaders (Warlord vs. Bard), then sure. But just because the Druid has magic doesn't mean that the druid can/should be able to heal.

This is playing mechanics instead of playing fluff.

I just feel that a Warlord Leader should inspire, he shouldn't heal, just cause he has the Leader label. That's mechanics. To me, a Warlord that inspired by handing out a lot of temporary hit points is 10x better mechanics-wise than a Warlord that heals.

And I don't think that a Druid should heal like a Leader. But since it is stated under Druid that he can have a secondary role as a Leader, I feel from a fluff and a mechanics point of view that him having to wait until mid-Paragon to do a minor amount of healing is not Leader-like at all.

 

[Rechan]

And I don't think that a Druid should heal like a Leader. But since it is stated under Druid that he can have a secondary role as a Leader, I feel from a fluff and a mechanics point of view that him having to wait until mid-Paragon to do a minor amount of healing is not Leader-like at all.

Leader doesn't mean just Healer. It means basically "ally boosting". Even among leaders, many leaders' capacity to give healing out varies. The Bard, for instance, rarely has any extra healing powers - a few dailies, but as a bard player I feel fairly strapped for any extra healing, while I'm giving other benefits all over the place.

But even then, I don't see anything inherent in the Druid's fluff OR mechanics that would suggest they would be secondary leaders in the first place. I'm looking through the druid's Heroic powers and the only thing that looks even remotely beneficial to your allies is Fires of Life, Resist Energy and Goodberries. Compare that with a class that does have a strong secondary leader component: The Paladin. They are throwing around heals or saving throws left and right. If Druids were supposed to be secondary leaders, then the designer dropped the ball.

I think the PHB2 saying the Druid's secondary role of leader is flat out incorrect; if that sentence was not in the PHB2, then I would not have not had the thought that they could be secondary leaders.

 

[KarinsDad]

But even then, I don't see anything inherent in the Druid's fluff OR mechanics that would suggest they would be secondary leaders in the first place. I'm looking through the druid's Heroic powers and the only thing that looks even remotely beneficial to your allies is Fires of Life, Resist Energy and Goodberries. Compare that with a class that does have a strong secondary leader component: The Paladin. They are throwing around heals or saving throws left and right. If Druids were supposed to be secondary leaders, then the designer dropped the ball.

My point exactly:

Depending on your choice of class features and powers, you might lean toward either leader or striker as a secondary role.

 

[Rechan]

My point exactly:

Then it has nothing to do with healing; they can't do any of it. So it has nothing to do with the Warlord doing what his role says to do, it clearly has everything to do with whoever wrote the PHB writing stuff on the druid that just ain't true.

Well, hm. Actually I think the Guardian druid has stuff that buffs himself. Granting himself temp HP or better defenses. Although I don't know if that would classify one as a "Leader". is he self leading?

 

[firesnakearies]

Well, hm. Actually I think the Guardian druid has stuff that buffs himself. Granting himself temp HP or better defenses. Although I don't know if that would classify one as a "Leader". is he self leading?

That's probably what they were thinking.

 

[Aulirophile]

I think that should probably read "Defender." Druids subbing into Defender is something that happens all the time, the "Leader" is probably an artifact of the early design process where they were similar to the 3.x Druid.

The only real difference between a controller (inflicting status effects, -defenses, etc) and a leader (buffs, +to hit, +defense) is the healing. Druids have basically no healing, so it doesn't make sense to say their secondary role is Leader.

 

[Jhaelen]

Yeah, it'd be interesting to go through all the martial powers and rejigger them to remove such things. For example, you could change inspiring word to an interrupt, not usable on someone who is unconscious or deafened, and it could be 'more realistic'.

Realistic, huh?

My stance is that it's too restrictive to think that the Martial power source can only ever produce 'realistic' results. It's a frigging power source! It's not the absence of a power source. Imho, all power sources tap some supernatural source to allow its users to do stuff that is clearly not realistic.

I prefer calling it the 'ki' power source (which could even become official now that 'ki' has been scrapped as a power source).

 

[Nichwee]

I think that should probably read "Defender." Druids subbing into Defender is something that happens all the time, the "Leader" is probably an artifact of the early design process where they were similar to the 3.x Druid.

Personally having seen a Druid in play in our game - I say the secondary role of a Druid is "What you build for".
Take the Predator Druid option and pick the right feat/power combo and you are heavily Striker.
Take Guardian and you can make a good Defender/Tank.
Our Swarm Druid does almost no control, but takes hits better than the rest of us due to resist/damage reduction and can do damage of about the same level as our strikers (tho they are both heavily hampered on DPR by RP concerns).

They gave it the Leader sceondary, imo, as basically no role gets healing but Leader - so even minor healing power options = Leader role in WotC's minds. So having Dailies that hand out healing = Secondary Leader Role.

 

[keterys]

My invoker clearly feels like he splashed leader, with copious party forced movement, AC bonuses, and a party interrupt shield. You don't need heals to feel like a leader.