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What would WotC need to do to win back the disenchanted?
- Thread starter innerdude
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Wicht
Hero
Who said that?
I doubt many of us equate a WotC who sells things we want to by with the death of RPGs. Paizo sells things I want to buy (too many things - not enough money) and they seem to be doing very, very well. With young players even.
nedjer
Adventurer
Go on, you don't really believe hardcore gamers want the hobby to wither and die? In many ways they remain the 'lifeblood' of the hobby, and a significant proportion of those who GM and go beyond learning a system to the stage where they make their own mark on a system.
It'd maybe just be good if they recognised the disproportionate role their buying power, purchase decisions and opinions have on shaping company policies; and take account of roleplaying as a whole when acting on the market aka stop being so conservative. (That's with a small c)
Doug McCrae
Legend
Kobold Boots, interesting that you mention the bloodied mechanic, which opens up penalties (monsters get special attacks on you) and options. In a way that makes hit points a little more verisimilitudinous than they have been previously.
The problems with this approach (thinking of all editions here) are:
1) Why do paper cuts require so much healing magic to cure? For example in 3e a 100hp PC on 1hp would need more than 10 Cure Light Wounds spells to be fully restored.
2) Why (at least prior to 4e) do they take so long to heal?
3) The player becomes dissociated from the character, to use the Alexandrian's phrase. The player knows that his PC on 1hp is close to death, but the character doesn't. Metagaming is required.
Wounds healing in six hours and being cured by warlords are probably the two major issues people have with verisimilitude in 4e. They suggest hit points that are less physical than they have been in previous editions. Though, paradoxically, due to the bloodied mechanic, hit point loss that stays above zero now has more of an effect.
The Alexandrian's approach is that a wound is partly physical and partly non-physical. Say a 10hp blow means 1hp of real injury and 9hp of 'luck loss'. But how can the warlord cure that 1hp of real injury with his Inspiring Word? Could any real injury completely heal in a day? However I don't see a shift from 90% abstract hp to 100% to be that big of a change.
Upthread, Beginning of the End mentioned 3e's extraordinary abilities, which indicate that the secondary world of 3e D&D does not have the same laws of physics as our own, even when it comes to non-magical effects. Could that then be an explanation for the warlord and six hour healing? D&D land is just a strange place. If one accepts extraordinary abilities in 3e, I don't see why one couldn't accept this.
But I don't think that's the concept of D&D world that most people have. The implications of extraordinary abilities were, imo, never accepted. Most people who play D&D believe the secondary world is a place where everything works like our own until you bring magic into it. Natural healing and warlords just aren't magical.
That works well for 4e, given how quickly wounds heal and that a sergeant shouting at you can cure them.
The problems with this approach (thinking of all editions here) are:
1) Why do paper cuts require so much healing magic to cure? For example in 3e a 100hp PC on 1hp would need more than 10 Cure Light Wounds spells to be fully restored.
2) Why (at least prior to 4e) do they take so long to heal?
3) The player becomes dissociated from the character, to use the Alexandrian's phrase. The player knows that his PC on 1hp is close to death, but the character doesn't. Metagaming is required.
Wounds healing in six hours and being cured by warlords are probably the two major issues people have with verisimilitude in 4e. They suggest hit points that are less physical than they have been in previous editions. Though, paradoxically, due to the bloodied mechanic, hit point loss that stays above zero now has more of an effect.
The Alexandrian's approach is that a wound is partly physical and partly non-physical. Say a 10hp blow means 1hp of real injury and 9hp of 'luck loss'. But how can the warlord cure that 1hp of real injury with his Inspiring Word? Could any real injury completely heal in a day? However I don't see a shift from 90% abstract hp to 100% to be that big of a change.
Upthread, Beginning of the End mentioned 3e's extraordinary abilities, which indicate that the secondary world of 3e D&D does not have the same laws of physics as our own, even when it comes to non-magical effects. Could that then be an explanation for the warlord and six hour healing? D&D land is just a strange place. If one accepts extraordinary abilities in 3e, I don't see why one couldn't accept this.
But I don't think that's the concept of D&D world that most people have. The implications of extraordinary abilities were, imo, never accepted. Most people who play D&D believe the secondary world is a place where everything works like our own until you bring magic into it. Natural healing and warlords just aren't magical.
Stop making books so expensive.
Stop over saturating with different optional books.
Discourage the edition wars.
Stop changing the rules every other year or so.
More PDFS for current and older games.
More software support for current and older games, and not just for D&D. I would've loved to see character builders for Star Wars, for example. When 3.0 first came out I loved that Character Builder and think something like it should be included with all new RPGs.
Stop over saturating with different optional books.
Discourage the edition wars.
Stop changing the rules every other year or so.
More PDFS for current and older games.
More software support for current and older games, and not just for D&D. I would've loved to see character builders for Star Wars, for example. When 3.0 first came out I loved that Character Builder and think something like it should be included with all new RPGs.
AdmundfortGeographer
Getting lost in fantasy maps
If only one didn't have to go into early-80's (and earlier) out-of-print D&D to find that . . .
This will never happen. There's nothing anybody can do about it.
Nobody can turn back the hands of time, to retroactively "abort" editions of D&D/AD&D from ever existing to begin with. (That is until somebody invents a time machine).
Even back in the day, this was done every few years. (ie. OD&D -> AD&D -> AD&D + Unearthed Arcana -> 2E AD&D).
The cost of hardcover D&D books aren't much different than many hardcover fiction and non-fiction books at bookstores.
For example, American Senator Edward Kennedy's autobiography is around the same price as the 4E D&D Player's Handbook.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/True-Compass-Edward-M-Kennedy/dp/0446539252"]Amazon.com: True Compass: A Memoir (9780446539258): Edward M.…[/ame]
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Players-Handbook-Heinsoo/dp/0786948671"]Amazon.com: Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook (9780786948673): Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt: Books[/ame]
What would you consider a reasonable price for D&D books?
Actually you could put the books in novel form and they could cost as little as seven dollars.
Are you thinking of the Dragon Warriors rpg line of six paperback books, from the 1980's?
Dragon Warriors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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