Recommend A Striker?

[ourchair]

Starting a new party with some friends, and well I want to consult on some possibilities.

We're playing within Eberron, and the flavor is that my girlfriend and I are playing as a husband and wife team (not necessarily the same race). This is one of the few times that neither of us is the DM, so I'm kind of excited to partner up with her.

She's going to be a Tiefling Dark Pact Warlock. Her experience is mostly as Leader classes such as 2 levels of Shaman, 5 levels of Runepriest and 2 levels of Artificer.

My other friend is playing a Genasi Swordmage (with an Eberron-appropriate backstory). He RPs consistently, even if he isn't trying to be 'effective'. He's played 5 levels of Artificer and 5 levels of Warden.

The rest of the party is still undecided, but it looks like its going to be a 6 player group.

So, what kind of Striker would best fit this so far? The three of us are playing 'Angry Last War victim types' and I'm eyeing a Sorcerer. If I play one, what should I look into for synergizing? What other Striker roles should I consider?

Advance thanks to any constructive replies.

 

[Tony Vargas]

We're playing within Eberron, and the flavor is that my girlfriend and I are playing as a husband and wife team (not necessarily the same race). This is one of the few times that neither of us is the DM, so I'm kind of excited to partner up with her.

SOs playing PCs with some sort of close relationship can be a lot of fun.

She's going to be a Tiefling Dark Pact Warlock. Her experience is mostly as Leader classes such as 2 levels of Shaman, 5 levels of Runepriest and 2 levels of Artificer.

My experience and observation of Warlocks is that people who enjoy the more complex, challenging roles of Leader or Controller find Warlocks boring. Warlocks have some great concepts, but mechanically there's just not a whole lot to do with them, and tactically, while you do have to keep cursing and mobility in mind, it doesn't hold a candle to the interest of playing a leader (who must be aware of the tactics of the party of the whole) or controller (who must be aware of the complexion of the entire battle).

So, what kind of Striker would best fit this so far? The three of us are playing 'Angry Last War victim types' and I'm eyeing a Sorcerer. If I play one, what should I look into for synergizing? What other Striker roles should I consider?

The Sorcerer and Warlock are both arcane strikers, but they each come by their power in very different ways. Sorcerers have innate power or an innate connextion to power, they don't study like a wizard, they just have magic bubbling up inside them and need only learn (often self-taught) how to control it. A Sorcerer could revel in his power, of find it a burden or a mystery, but it's very much his own. A Warlock, OTOH, gains arcane power through a perilous pact with some sort of powerful entity. You have to covet power quite a bit to take the Warlock's path willingly (though some are tricked into it). The dynamics between an arcanist to whom power is a birthright, and one who paid dearly (and stands to pay more dearly still) for it, could be quite interesting to explore.

For instance, the wife of a Sorcerer could be tempted to seek the Warlock's pact in order to match his power - perhaps out of insecurity, or maybe from a desire to help him. Or, she could have been tricked or coerced into a pact by some entity seeking power over her husband. Conversely, a Sorcerer trying to learn to control his power could study with a more knowledgeable arcanist, like a Warlock (INT secondary, while INT is virtually a dump stat for sorcerers), and the relationship could progress from there.

Mechanically, the Warlock and Sorcerer complement eachother in their secondary controller roles. Warlocks shade into controller with their many condition-inflicting powers. Sorcerers rival controllers in variety and power (if not quite sheer size) of Area-effect powers. As a team, the two of you could deliver most of the functionality of a controller to your party.

 

[ourchair]

The Sorcerer and Warlock are both arcane strikers, but they each come by their power in very different ways. Sorcerers have innate power or an innate connextion to power, they don't study like a wizard, they just have magic bubbling up inside them and need only learn (often self-taught) how to control it. A Sorcerer could revel in his power, of find it a burden or a mystery, but it's very much his own. A Warlock, OTOH, gains arcane power through a perilous pact with some sort of powerful entity. You have to covet power quite a bit to take the Warlock's path willingly (though some are tricked into it). The dynamics between an arcanist to whom power is a birthright, and one who paid dearly (and stands to pay more dearly still) for it, could be quite interesting to explore.

For instance, the wife of a Sorcerer could be tempted to seek the Warlock's pact in order to match his power - perhaps out of insecurity, or maybe from a desire to help him. Or, she could have been tricked or coerced into a pact by some entity seeking power over her husband. Conversely, a Sorcerer trying to learn to control his power could study with a more knowledgeable arcanist, like a Warlock (INT secondary, while INT is virtually a dump stat for sorcerers), and the relationship could progress from there.

Mechanically, the Warlock and Sorcerer complement eachother in their secondary controller roles. Warlocks shade into controller with their many condition-inflicting powers. Sorcerers rival controllers in variety and power (if not quite sheer size) of Area-effect powers. As a team, the two of you could deliver most of the functionality of a controller to your party.

Wow, thanks for a very flavor-rich reply! I will get back to her on your ideas of class/relationship dynamic.

The 'covets power' angle would work well if we pursue the idea of 'Angry Last War victims' especialy since we're thinking about being Cyrean refugees. She might desire power to gain retribution against the other Four Nations, while my Sorcerer could contrast her as someone who doesn't shy away from retribution but is more concerned with finding power and arcane means to 'fix' the Mournland.

My experience and observation of Warlocks is that people who enjoy the more complex, challenging roles of Leader or Controller find Warlocks boring. Warlocks have some great concepts, but mechanically there's just not a whole lot to do with them, and tactically, while you do have to keep cursing and mobility in mind, it doesn't hold a candle to the interest of playing a leader (who must be aware of the tactics of the party of the whole) or controller (who must be aware of the complexion of the entire battle).

She seems to find the leader role mentally exhausting especially after last Saturday when, as a Runepriest had to keep reminding everyone of her buffs/debuffs and keep track of whether she was in a Protective or Destructive Runic state. Between that and DMing every two weeks, she's playing a Warlock as a break from all that gray matter work.

SOs playing PCs with some sort of close relationship can be a lot of fun.

Why high five on a crit, when you can give a kiss on the cheek?

Also, we are at risk of having an overworked defender, as one of our other players -- the most mechanically talented and RP savvy of the lot -- is playing a Kalashtar Psion, while the least experienced player is leaning towards a Rogue.

 

[FireLance]

Would you consider playing a striker/defender hybrid to help out the poor swordmage?

If so, sorcerer/paladin has some ability score synergy, or if you're prepared to give up being a sorcerer, barbarian/fighter or ranger/warden could also work well.

 

[ourchair]

Would you consider playing a striker/defender hybrid to help out the poor swordmage?

Perhaps. How would a Changeling fare as a Chaladin Sorcerer? Would that work as a Hybrid or as a Multiclass? The other race option I'm favoring is Dragonborn.

Taste-wise, I've never played classes with the keywords 'Squishy,' 'DPS' or 'Arcane' before, which is kind of why I favored the sorcerer. I'm leaning more towards a Changeling, but I'm less reluctant to back down from that race if I'm a Dragonborn.

 

[jbear]

Also a star pact warlock and a cosmic sorceror would be able to have a lot in common flavourwise. And the Cosmic Sorceror is my favourite build: Cosmic Phases and Blazing Starfall! Both are really cool! Strikers in general aren't overly complex. Do as much damage as possible is the motto. Both the Warlock and the Sorceror have a little bit more to them than the ranger and the barbarian. The rogue has to master stealth and gaining CAdv and flavourwise can be pretty interesting, especially the charismatic rogue who can play the Face as well. The Avenger is full of flavour, trading accuracy for damage. Also story wise Im sure it'd be easy to come up with something to fit in with why the Warlock was bound by her dark pact and finding a way of freeing her.

Personally I prefer my Strikers as Hybrids. This adds some versatility so I can choose between dealing decent damage or switching into a secondary role when the need arises. Mechanically some of my favourites are:

Half-Orc Dual Wielding Melee Ranger/Tempest fighter (when Dark Sun comes out this would become a Mul instead ). With Dual Strike, I can double Mark and defend a bit. My Combat Challenge gives me more attacks if my mark is ignored, as effective as a normal fighter. Twin Strike for single target focused damage + Quarry dmage. Add off Hand Strike and I can do a Fighter/Ranger combo and do both in one round without even using an action point. 18 Str 18 Dex and 13 Wis (and you can even multi-class into avenger and gain double d20 rolls on each attack if you like). The combination of fighter powers (rain of blows, Tempest Dance,) with ranger powers (skirmishers stance + Pass Forward!) are beautiful. Here is a pretty decent build:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 11
Half-Orc, Ranger|Fighter, Pit Fighter
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Fighter Combat Talent
Fighter Combat Talent: Tempest Technique (Hybrid)
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 13, Dex 20, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.


AC: 25 Fort: 21 Reflex: 22 Will: 17
HP: 84 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 21

TRAINED SKILLS


UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Arcana +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +7, Heal +7, History +5, Insight +7, Intimidate +6, Nature +7, Perception +7, Religion +5, Stealth +9, Streetwise +4, Thievery +9, Athletics +9

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
Level 4: Midnight Blade Student
Level 6: Mobile Challenge
Level 8: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Swift Blade Style
Level 11: Two-Weapon Opening

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Twin Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Dual Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Off-Hand Strike
Hybrid daily 1: Skirmishing Stance
Hybrid utility 2: Pass Forward
Hybrid encounter 3: Rain of Blows
Hybrid daily 5: Dervish's Challenge
Hybrid utility 6: Serpentine Dodge
Hybrid encounter 7: Opportunist's Rend
Hybrid daily 9: Fighter's Recovery
Hybrid utility 10: Resume the Hunt

ITEMS
Scourge (2), Hide Armor, Short sword (2)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


Flavourwise a melee striker/defender could make a nice combo with the Arcane Striker; a Queen and her Knight.

Speaking of Knights... what about a Paladin/Warlock Hybrid. Heavily Armoured Tiefling Arcane Striker full of White Lotus nastiness. That would fit even more storywise with your wife and the Queen and her dark Knight scenario, bouth bound by the same pact: Heres a possible build:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
johnhybrid paladin warlock, level 11
Tiefling, Warlock|Paladin, Student of Caiphon
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Star Pact (Hybrid)
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Hybrid Paladin: Hybrid Paladin Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Twofold Pact: Fey Pact
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 15, Dex 14, Int 19, Wis 9, Cha 21.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 16.


AC: 27 Fort: 19 Reflex: 21 Will: 21
HP: 84 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +14, Bluff +17, Intimidate +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +7, Arcana +9, Diplomacy +10, Dungeoneering +4, Endurance +7, Heal +4, History +9, Insight +4, Nature +4, Perception +4, Stealth +9, Streetwise +10, Thievery +7, Athletics +5

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Warlock's Wrath
Level 4: White Lotus Riposte
Level 6: Gaze of Ruin
Level 8: Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade)
Level 10: Accursed Coordination
Level 11: Twofold Pact

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Enfeebling Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Eldritch Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Valorous Smite
Hybrid daily 1: Crown of Stars
Hybrid utility 2: Bless Weapon
Hybrid encounter 3: Otherwind Stride
Hybrid daily 5: Hallowed Circle
Hybrid utility 6: Shadowslip
Hybrid encounter 7: Far Realm Phantasm
Hybrid daily 9: Radiant Pulse
Hybrid utility 10: Ethereal Sidestep

ITEMS
Fullblade of Great Opportunity +2, Teleporting Wyvernscale Armor +3, Eladrin Boots (paragon tier), Badge of the Berserker +1, Horned Helm (heroic tier), Belt of Vigor (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Potion of Healing (heroic tier) (6)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


Another neat striker combo is the human Rogue/Assassin Hybrid multiclassed into Warlock. You can have both the Assassins Shadow Step Teleport power and combine it with the Warlocks Shadow Walk... not to mention all the rogues nifty Stealth movement powers. An assassin and a warlock, they fit pretty darn well. Plus you'll be able to do striker damage when you have combat advantage and when you don't. And with Low Slash, once per combat you ll be able to deal both shroud and backstab damage. Didn't have much time to do this one, but here is a sketch:


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 11
Human, Rogue|Assassin, Daggermaster
Hybrid Assassin: Hybrid Assassin Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Shadow Step

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 15, Dex 19, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 15.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 14, Dex 16, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 14.


AC: 22 Fort: 19 Reflex: 22 Will: 18
HP: 66 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 16

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +12, Stealth +14, Thievery +14, Perception +10, Athletics +9, Bluff +12, Acrobatics +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +5, Heal +5, History +7, Insight +5, Intimidate +7, Nature +5, Religion +7, Streetwise +7

FEATS
Human: Hybrid Talent
Level 1: Student of Malediction
Level 2: Cursed Shadow
Level 4: Roguish Killer
Level 6: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 8: Two-Weapon Defense
Level 10: Versatile Duelist
Level 11: Two-Weapon Opening

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Deft Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Executioner's Noose
Hybrid at-will 1: Piercing Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Gloom Thief
Hybrid daily 1: Blinding Barrage
Hybrid utility 2: Fleeting Ghost
Hybrid encounter 3: Low Slash
Hybrid daily 5: Twilight Assassin
Hybrid utility 6: Darting Shadow
Hybrid encounter 7: Shadow Jack

ITEMS
Leather Armor, Dagger, Longsword
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Food for thought!

 

[Pickles JG]

You do not seem to have a leader. I think this is OK but it helps to compensate with some MC leader feats or Hybrids - you can get a good chunk of healing without compromising your main role with a hybrid leader. You could easily go Bard or Ardent or Warlord with a Sorcerer - that seems to cover a bigger gap than the stretched defender. (Hmmm bard sorcerer seems really good - especially once the implement rules harmonise)

You are on the squishy side - 3 ranged guys, a rogue & a swordmage is not the most robust of parties. Dragonborn make very good AOE Damage (dragon duh!) sorcerers. I think the other flavours are more controlly but anyone with a +cha is going to work fine.

On flavour a sorcerer might have gained his power on the day of doom (er can't remember the right name) having previously been whatever he is MC/Hybrid/backstoried.

 

[FireLance]

Perhaps. How would a Changeling fare as a Chaladin Sorcerer? Would that work as a Hybrid or as a Multiclass? The other race option I'm favoring is Dragonborn.

The downside of being a changeling is that they currently don't have a lot of feat support. From a purely mechanical perspective, I would go with dragonborn, but if you think you would enjoy the flavor of being a changeling more, go for it!

Anyway, you raise a good point about multiclassing. Given that you already have a defender, a 1/encounter divine challenge may be enough to help shoulder some of the burden. It might actually be a better option than going for a hybrid since the hybrid talent options for the paladin are (IMO) awful.

 

[Herschel]

Looking at your lineup I'd be tempted to play a leader who can step in to melee because there's a huge hole in your party right now. The swordmage player may become frustrated (and character dead) pretty quickly when he has to be the entire front line and there's no healing to be given.

The other thing that might work is if someone would play a leader (maybe the rogue player) like the skirmishing warlord and the sorcerer and Warlock feat in to White Lotus Riposte to be able to step in to melee and help out. That would mitigate the swordmage having to take "all" the damage and give all the ranged attackers a boost.

 

[ourchair]

The downside of being a changeling is that they currently don't have a lot of feat support. From a purely mechanical perspective, I would go with dragonborn, but if you think you would enjoy the flavor of being a changeling more, go for it!

Anyway, you raise a good point about multiclassing. Given that you already have a defender, a 1/encounter divine challenge may be enough to help shoulder some of the burden. It might actually be a better option than going for a hybrid since the hybrid talent options for the paladin are (IMO) awful.

Flavor-wise, Bards are always appealing to me, mostly for the 'scholar/artist' vibe, and I thought making 'Cyrean Dirge Singer' melds well with 'Untamed Arcane Fury' so that's what I was exploring at this moment.

However, a CHAladin could be flavored as a Changeling born with arcane fury in his blood who once walked the path of the faithful, and post-Mourning has become an Atheist/Agnostic. (From Paladin to Sorcerer basically)

Mechanically though, I'm not sure how keen I am on playing a glass cannon who asks enemies to brutalize him via mark.