Sorcerer + Wizard uses of Permanency Spell
- Thread starter Lord Thurham
- Start date
Look at the date!!!!!
More time reading is less time re-reading resurrected threads from 8 years ago.
I read it for the first time today hence am not re-reading anything but thanks anyway, now I know I am not the only person reading 8 year old forums.
Herzog
Adventurer
Let me clarify:
The threads in this form are sorted by last post date. So if you reply to a thread 8 years old, it becomes a 'recent' thread.
The chance the original posters are still interested in the discussion is slim at best, so unless you have a related question, or the thread is open ended and you wonder if anyone has an answer now, it is better not to reply to these threads.
Even then, a new thread with a link to the old one is preferred.
The threads in this form are sorted by last post date. So if you reply to a thread 8 years old, it becomes a 'recent' thread.
The chance the original posters are still interested in the discussion is slim at best, so unless you have a related question, or the thread is open ended and you wonder if anyone has an answer now, it is better not to reply to these threads.
Even then, a new thread with a link to the old one is preferred.
Dandu
First Post
Permanency
Universal
Level: Sor/Wiz 5 Components: V, S, XP Casting Time: 2 rounds Range: See text Target, Effect, or Area: See text Duration: Permanent; see text Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No
Depending on the spell, you must be of a minimum caster level and must expend a number of XP.
You can make the following spells permanent in regard to yourself.
...
You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell. You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.
In addition to personal use, permanency can be used to make the following spells permanent on yourself, another creature, or an object (as appropriate).
...
Additionally, the following spells can be cast upon objects or areas only and rendered permanent.
...
Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.
Were things different in third edition?
Last edited:
frankthedm
First Post
That is just ONE way of viewing the forum.
An option, that not everyone shares. If there is no interest, the thread will sink back down for those who view the forum by last post date. Those who are searching for threads on permanency will find it just as easily as a thread made yesterday.
Here is the 3.0 text.Dandu said:
[sblock]Permanency
Universal
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, XP
Casting Time: 2 rounds
Range: See text
Target, Effect, or Area: See text
Duration: Permanent (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell makes certain other spells permanent. Depending on the spell, the character must be at least a minimum level and must expend a number of XP.
The character can make these spells permanent in regard to his or her self:
Minimum
Spell Level XP Cost
----- ------- -------
Comprehend languages 9th 500 XP
Darkvision 10th 1,000 XP
Detect magic 9th 500 XP
Protection from arrows 11th 1,500 XP
Read magic 9th 500 XP
See invisibility 10th 1,000 XP
Tongues 11th 1,500 XP
The character casts the desired spell and then follows it with the permanency spell. The character cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of greater level than the character was when the character cast the spell.
In addition to personal use, permanency can be used to make the following spells permanent on him or herself, another creature, or an object (as appropriate):
Minimum
Spell Level XP Cost
----- ------- -------
Enlarge 9th 500 XP
Magic Fang 9th 500 XP
Resistance 9th 250 XP
Additionally, the following spells can be cast upon objects or areas only and rendered permanent:
Minimum
Spell Level XP Cost
----- ------- -------
Alarm 9th 500 XP
Dancing lights 9th 500 XP
Ghost sound 9th 500 XP
Gust of wind 11th 1,500 XP
Invisibility 10th 1,000 XP
Magic mouth 10th 1,000 XP
Phase door 15th 3,500 XP
Prismatic sphere 17th 4,500 XP
Shrink item 11th 1,500 XP
Solid fog 12th 2,000 XP
Stinking cloud 11th 1,500 XP
Symbol 16th 4,000 XP
Teleportation circle 17th 4,500 XP
Wall of fire 12th 2,000 XP
Wall of force 13th 2,500 XP
Web 10th 1,000 XP
Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on the character) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.
The DM may allow other selected spells to be made permanent. Researching this possible application of a spell costs as much time and money as independently researching the selected spell. If the DM has already determined that the application is not possible, the research automatically fails. Note that the character never learns what is possible except by the success or failure of the character's research.
[/sblock]
Which books are you referring to? Even my 3.0 PHB has it listed as Permanent duration type. I checked to make sure it was not something the early 3.0 errata changed. Also it sounded like [MENTION=2564]Bonedagger[/MENTION] had intended the shutdown effect to work with the normal vulnerability of all magic items, 1d4 rounds of being suppressed if a successful dispel magic targets the item.J1ngle said:
jefgorbach
First Post
And therein lies the problem with Permanency - personal effects remain subject to being dispelled by someone of higher level than you were when you rendered the effect permanent, while those effects you rendered "permanent" upon another must casscadedly(word?) save from highest to lowest spell level until something fails.
Since combat often involves villains of higher level than the PCs, and typically(?) begin by both sides casting area-effect dispel magics, permanent buffs quickly fail; wasting the invested xp.
Therefore its usually more cost-effective to craft an object granting the desired effect since they are NOT affected by an area dispel and a foe is unlikely to waste time targeting individual objects while the party attacks him directly.
Since combat often involves villains of higher level than the PCs, and typically(?) begin by both sides casting area-effect dispel magics, permanent buffs quickly fail; wasting the invested xp.
Therefore its usually more cost-effective to craft an object granting the desired effect since they are NOT affected by an area dispel and a foe is unlikely to waste time targeting individual objects while the party attacks him directly.
frankthedm
First Post
IMHO an important balancing feature.
jefgorbach
First Post
True and why its a poor choice for a sorcerer unless he's prepared to burn xp restoring his expected permanent effects "daily".
Jack Simth
First Post
Let's see...
1) Don't get Permanency as a Sorcerer (Wizards: Go for it). Use Limited Wish, instead. Sure, it's a 7th level spell slot vs. a 5th level spell slot, but Limited Wish doesn't cost any more XP (it's 300 xp, or the cost of the duplicated spell, whichever is MORE)
2) Permanency is a bit risky in a 'standard' campaign - Dispelling is a really, really good tactic against most spellcasters (not all!), and should be a reasonably standard opening move. As most of your opponents will be higher level then you are, and after a few levels, ALL OF THEM will be higher level than you were when you cast the spell, it's gone in fairly short order.
Now, if you are using Limited Wish instead of Permanency, and you've either got a DM who doesn't dispel much/ever (generally goes with players who don't layer buffs and don't open with Dispels themselves, by the way) or you have house-rules protecting Permanent spells, then go for it.
As for 'borrowing' the spell from another caster? Exactly as written, Permanency only cares about who's casting Permanency - not who's casting the spell to be made permanent. So yes, if the party Wizard casts Darkvision on you, and you have a caster level of 10 and 1,000 xp to burn, then you can Permanency that Darkvision spell. If the party Wizard casts Reduce Person on you, and you have a caster level of 9 and 500 xp to burn, you can Permanency that Reduce Person on yourself.
1) Don't get Permanency as a Sorcerer (Wizards: Go for it). Use Limited Wish, instead. Sure, it's a 7th level spell slot vs. a 5th level spell slot, but Limited Wish doesn't cost any more XP (it's 300 xp, or the cost of the duplicated spell, whichever is MORE)
2) Permanency is a bit risky in a 'standard' campaign - Dispelling is a really, really good tactic against most spellcasters (not all!), and should be a reasonably standard opening move. As most of your opponents will be higher level then you are, and after a few levels, ALL OF THEM will be higher level than you were when you cast the spell, it's gone in fairly short order.
Now, if you are using Limited Wish instead of Permanency, and you've either got a DM who doesn't dispel much/ever (generally goes with players who don't layer buffs and don't open with Dispels themselves, by the way) or you have house-rules protecting Permanent spells, then go for it.
As for 'borrowing' the spell from another caster? Exactly as written, Permanency only cares about who's casting Permanency - not who's casting the spell to be made permanent. So yes, if the party Wizard casts Darkvision on you, and you have a caster level of 10 and 1,000 xp to burn, then you can Permanency that Darkvision spell. If the party Wizard casts Reduce Person on you, and you have a caster level of 9 and 500 xp to burn, you can Permanency that Reduce Person on yourself.
