Sorcerer + Wizard uses of Permanency Spell

1) Don't get Permanency as a Sorcerer (Wizards: Go for it). Use Limited Wish, instead.

Sorry to be thick-headed, but why? It can still be dispelled just like Permanency, so I'm apparently missing something.

Since combat often involves villains of higher level than the PCs, and typically(?) begin by both sides casting area-effect dispel magics, permanent buffs quickly fail; wasting the invested xp.

You know, I hear that here and elsewhere but I've yet to see it. I guess I've been just lucky but I haven't seen it anywhere else either. I'm currently running a Ultimate Magus who did the Permanency routine as a role-playing gimmick (he never expected to have to adventure!) and I was so afraid of that happening I actually wasted a ring slot to take a ring of counterspells. As a DM, I used to do it, but I got tired of all the dang checks.
 

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Sorry to be thick-headed, but why? It can still be dispelled just like Permanency, so I'm apparently missing something.
Dandu answered in a very succinct manner, but I like being verbose.

Basically, if you take Permanancy as a spell known, as a Sorcerer, you've got a problem: There's a sharply limited number of spells it applies to, and you're not going to use it often at all, because there's a very sharply limited list of things it can do, and those don't come up often. As a Sorcerer, things you're not going to use often, if at all, are a really bad idea.

Limited Wish, however, is useful in any circumstance where you can afford it - it's close to the ultimate "I need to be able to do X" spell. Direct damage? Check. Buffing allies? Check. Obscure utility spell? Check. 300 xp/pop. It goes well on any Sorcerer's list because there's a LOT of things it can do (including raising the dead, by way of Reincarnate - or Raise Dead, if you've got the diamonds).

So, as a Sorcerer, you don't bother with Permanency as a Spell Known - you do, however, bother with Limited Wish, as that's rather useful. You still won't use it every day... but it's an expensive swiss army knife all on it's own.
You know, I hear that here and elsewhere but I've yet to see it. I guess I've been just lucky but I haven't seen it anywhere else either. I'm currently running a Ultimate Magus who did the Permanency routine as a role-playing gimmick (he never expected to have to adventure!) and I was so afraid of that happening I actually wasted a ring slot to take a ring of counterspells. As a DM, I used to do it, but I got tired of all the dang checks.
It's table and DM dependent.

If the players use Dispels a lot to get rid of BBEG buffs, then the DM is more likely to use Dispels as well (as it's a reasonable tactic, and makes sense). If the players use lots of layered buffs, then the DM is more likely to use Dispels (as it becomes a particularly effective tactic).

If the players don't use lots of layered buffs, and (almost) never cast Dispel Magic, then it's rather unlikely the DM will bother using Dispel Magic either. So it'll show up in some campaigns, but not others, and will depend more on the group and the DM than it will on the rules themselves.
 

Dandu answered in a very succinct manner, but I like being verbose.
So do I. It helps to avoid problems. And, often, when people ask questions they are looking for a reason behind something, or the 'official' rules, not just a 'yes/no' answer. Especially when that answer winds up being wrong (as I've seen on occasion).

Limited Wish, however, is useful in any circumstance where you can afford it ... So, as a Sorcerer, you don't bother with Permanency as a Spell Known - you do, however, bother with Limited Wish, as that's rather useful.
Ah, see I was only thinking in terms of Permanency vs. Limited Wish to give you 'permanent' abilities. I didn't realize you were being smart and going beyond that into the limited number of spells. (Duh, it should've been obvious to me when you said "Wizards: Go for it!")


It's table and DM dependent...
Ah, yes, that's my DM Rule #2: "If you can do it, they can do it!"
Fine, in a three-on-three, you want to triple team my (middle) monster then I'll triple team you.
Fine, you want to (2e) hold a person and coup de grace him, then I will too.
That's led to several player-requested house rules, like "You can't do a coup if combat is occurring within 20 feet."
 



Dispel in itself has a limitation, it dispels the highest failed spell level first, so, would the effect of say... Darkvision still be in effect? but just not permenant? Or has the duration long passed? Or does Dispel dispel the Dark Vision with Permenancy (meaning both spells...) Few questions on that one... heh

Gotta go researching, I'll be back!

LT
There are higher level version of dispel that can dispel more than one spell at a time. Check out the spell compendium and the complete series, that where I remember most them to be printed.
 

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