Dancey v. Mearls?

[Dausuul]

That however doesn't say anything about the total sales of the 4e PHB versus the PHBs of any other edition in total over all print runs, which is the meaty data that's conspicuously missing from all of this.

That's not meaty data at all. In fact, it's completely irrelevant.

1E lasted twelve years, 2E lasted eleven years, and 3E lasted eight years. 4E has so far been around for all of two years. (Seems longer, doesn't it?) So total sales is a worthless metric; 4E would look like an utter failure even if it was selling like gangbusters.

You could compare on a per-year basis, but that would just overstate 4E's success rather than understating it, since sales are not constant over the lifetime of an edition; most editions you'd expect to see the highest sales in the first year or so as the community changes over, followed by a decline and plateau, with smaller spikes at the release of "half-editions." (The exception would be 1E, since 1E was the edition in force during the craze of the '80s.)

I'm not saying the print run comparison is particularly good data, but it's on the right track. Compare sales in first year rather than print run size, and compare 4E to a whole edition rather than a half (the lauch of 3.5E is a much lower bar than the launch of 3E), and it'd be a pretty decent metric.

 

[carmachu]

The CMO of the parent company of one of WotC's biggest competitors posted several screeds about how D&D is failing (because, you know, the PHB2 sold through its initial print run, which is clearly terribad and not at all what the PHB1 did), and how the real future of tabletop RPGs just happens to mirror the current trajectory of his own company.

Do you have a link for that? I'd be interested to see that in context.

I dont think either, Darcy or Mearls is correct, but leaning a touch more to Darcy. Dont think everything is quite great in 4e land, otherwise why the soft reboot with essentials.(which isnt nearly the reboot 3.5 was, nor the hard reboot 4e was).

 

[Umbran]

Dont think everything is quite great in 4e land, otherwise why the soft reboot with essentials.

Since when does doing well preclude wanting to do better? You think successful companies rest on the laurels of "good enough"?

 

[ggroy]

Since when does doing well preclude wanting to do better? You think successful companies rest on the laurels of "good enough"?

There's probably a small number which do.

A guess would be cigarette and alcohol companies. The "innovation" would be more along the lines of marketing and advertising, than changing the actual product itself.

 

[AngryMojo]

There's probably a small number which do.

A guess would be cigarette and alcohol companies. The "innovation" would be more along the lines of marketing and advertising, than changing the actual product itself.

Even they don't really do this. Tobacco companies release new varieties of cigarette all the time, and Budweiser has released something like ten new beers in the past two years.

 

[dmccoy1693]

When people talk about the RPG industry in general (not specifically wizards), I just wonder if we are finally figuring out as an industry how to stay a profitable business as opposed to constantly bleeding money. Take WW for example. I don't know their books, but I am sure they are doing well enough for their size. They are paying for the print run with PDF sales first. Very smart business move. While they may not be as sexy as a company that prints first and does accounting later, I'd estimate that WW will be around for a few more years with this move.

Not to mention how many RPG books never got sold. The game store that use to be closest to me (a closer one opened less than a year ago), I don't go to anymore. They never carry anything new. I was there a few months ago and they still have 3.0 d20 (not D&D, but now defunct 3rd party companies) book on their shelves AT FULL PRICE!!! The only thing I can see it used for anymore is a 3rd party company mining it for ideas. But they won't budge. And I am sure they are not the only store like that.

I remember Scott Rouse talking about how it pained him every time he had to sign an order to destroy D&D books. So even Wizards never sold all their books.

Many we as an industry are just learning how many books to print. I'm sure there is shrinkage in the industry going on, but I still wonder how much of it is simply "The last book like this sold 400 copies so this time I am only going to print 400 copies instead of the 600 I did last time."

 

[ggroy]

I remember Scott Rouse talking about how it pained him every time he had to sign an order to destroy D&D books. So even Wizards never sold all their books.

Any links for this discussion about Rouse signing orders to destroy D&D books?

 

[dmccoy1693]

Any links for this discussion about Rouse signing orders to destroy D&D books?

It would be circa 2007 when that was said. so no. Not something I can find within 5 minutes.

EDIT: I should clarify that that was at the tail end of 3.5 so that wouldn't be 4e books.

 

[ggroy]

It would be circa 2007 when that was said. so no. Not something I can find within 5 minutes.

EDIT: I should clarify that that was at the tail end of 3.5 so that wouldn't be 4e books.

Most likely it was done for tax write purposes.

With that being said, wonder which 3E/3.5E titles were destroyed around that time when Rouse signed such destruction orders. If I had to guess, probably whatever old 3E titles they still had kicking around in their warehouse collecting dust, and whatever 3.5E titles they printed up too many copies of which didn't sell very well.

A number of years ago, I remember seeing several "remaindered" 3.5E Eberron and Forgotten Realms splatbooks in the bargain section of several big box bookstores in piles of 8 or more copies per title. I wouldn't be surprised at all if these particular titles ended up being destroyed by WotC in 2007.

 

[ggroy]

At this point in time, I don't see WotC destroying 4E books for tax writeoff purposes. That day will come after they announce 5E D&D.