I love D&D but not so much Dungeons, anyone else?

[karlindel]

I enjoy the occasional dungeon crawl, although I agree that they can get tedious after awhile. Also, it can strain credulity if monsters are too close together in a dungeon.

I like the idea of parts of a large dungeon complex being handled as a skill challenge. I think it's a great way to speed through large numbers of empty corridors or uninteresting areas. Successes on the skill challenge can lead to the party getting the drop on the opponents or finding out more about the dungeon and its inhabitants. Failures can mean losing time backtracking, extra surges lost to accidents along the way, or the enemies getting the drop on the PCs.

 

[Diamond Cross]

I like dungeon crawls with a specific mission in mind rather than just grinding for loot and xp. However, once in a while I do like mindless hack and slash stuff. But mostly small dungeons like White Plume Mountain.

 

[Jhaelen]

But mostly small dungeons like White Plume Mountain.

Uh, do you really consider White Plume Mountain to be a small dungeon?

How many encounter areas and encounters does it have?

Unless I'm misremembering (it's been a while since I played this!), it's already quite too large for my taste.

 

[TheClone]

I'm not really fond of dungeons in general. But that isn't the problem of dungeons themselves, but of the writers. Often dungeons are just a mindless collection of encounters and traps with a big treasure or goal at the end. But they are "dead". If a dungeon is made for my taste, it has to be "alive". It needs a cause for it's being there (apart from "the great wizard mrflyx created this maze to test adventurers"), it needs real inhabitants, not only a collection of all monster from monster manual which happen to have the right level. Maybe there are even underground settlements, economy and stories to uncover. More than just "You are here (red button) and need to get to the end of this". You know, I love to have it filled with background and life. And it needs to make sense.

I think the idea of "abstracting" the dungeon with skill challenges that bring up encounter is also a good way to play a dungeon. It gets rid of the - for me - boring "hack'n'trap" play. You can focus on story elements and combine them with nice combat encounters. And since you don't have that much combat encounters you avoid the awful repetition. So it would be more of a "hack'n'tell" (even if "storytelling" is a polluted term).

 

[Desdichado]

Yeah I am not trying to remove the dungeon just find a different way to experience it that works for me and my mind set. I could even run a "mega" dungeon using those formats and it feel fun for me, suing the flow chart example you posted. Nice maps btw.

Do you mind if I ask why not? If you don't like dungeons, why do you want to make them work? There's plenty of other things that can be done in a game of D&D then going into dungeons. If it's only because you think that dungeons are integral to the D&D experience, so you have to have them... well, they're not. Or maybe you just like the concept of the dungeon but not the execution?

I dunno; I think it'd be easier if I understood the mind-set behind the question a little better. I haven't run anything at all like a dungeon in close to twenty years (although I've reluctantly played in several since then) and I haven't missed them a bit.

 

[wolfpunk]

I have long disliked the huge dungeon crawl because they always seems to devolve into tedium. So this is an example of what I do in an adventure.

Not sure if this will make complete sense, but all the characters can make the skils checks, they get an amount of experience equal to their result. The best overall result determines what actually happens though.


38) Battle outside the Tower
The bleak stone facade of Kragspire looms several hundred feet up into the air. Myriad carvings, protrusions and balconies cantilever out over nothing creating inky pools of shadow upon the face of the tower.
DC Perception Result
< 15 You realize too late that the gargoyles are alive. You are surprised.
15+ The Gargoyles are alive. (800 xp)

Opponents: 4 combat enemies CR 10 each.

If failure, the gargoyles fly you up to one of the many balconies where you are left until such time as one of the gargoyles returns to devour you.

39) Tower Traps
Every inch of every surface of the tower is carved with runes. Writings in undercommon, terran, infernal, abyssal, and draconic assault you from all angles. Some of the runes draw your gaze towards them and some turn your head in revulsion.
DC Perception Result (+2 if you have at least 5 ranks in Knowledge (arcane))
< 15 Find zero traps, miss five traps.
15 Find one trap, miss four traps. (600 xp)
18 Find two traps, miss three traps. (800 xp)
21 Find three traps, miss two traps. (1,000 xp)
24 Find four traps, miss one trap. (1,200 xp)
27 Find five traps, miss zero traps. (1,400 xp)


39a) Traps
< 15 Find Sepia’s Snake Sigil. (Disable Device DC 28, Reflex save DC 14 negates or 1d4+6 days immobilized)
15 Find Greater Glyph of Warding. (Disable Device DC 31, 6d8 sonic damage, Reflex save DC 19 for half damage)
18 Find Explosive Runes. (Disable Device DC 28, 6d6 force damage, Reflex save DC 14 for half damage)
21 Find Glyph of Warding. (Disable Device DC 28, 3d8 sonic damage, Reflex save DC 14 for half damage)
24 Find Fire Trap. (Disable Device DC 29, 1d4+7 fire damage, Reflex save DC 16 for half damage)

40) Tower Monsters
Ancient minions roam the halls haphazardly, as if on some non-Euclidian patrol route that defies explanation.
DC Knowledge (Architecture) Result (+2 if you have at least 5 ranks in Stealth)
< 15 Avoid zero encounters, face five encounters.
15 Avoid one encounter, face four encounters. (600 xp)
18 Avoid two encounters, face three encounters. (800 xp)
21 Avoid three encounters, face two encounters (1,000 xp)
24 Avoid four encounters, face one encounter. (1,200 xp)
27 Avoid five encounters, face zero encounters. (1,400 xp)

40a) Encounters
< 15 One combat, one skill and one spell enemy CR 9 each.
15 Two combat enemies CR 9 each.
18 One spell enemy CR 10.
21 Two skill enemies CR 9 each.
24 One combat enemy CR 10.

41) Tower Treasure
Treasure gained according to number of trap and monster encounters faced.
1 Goggles of minute seeing
2 Eyes of the eagle
3 Golembane scarab
4 Arcane Scroll with 1-3rd, 1-4th, 1-5th, 1-6th level spells
5 Divine Scroll with 1-3rd (Speak with Dead), 1-4th, 1-5th, 1-6th level spells
6 Incense of Mediation
7 Helm of comprehend languages and read magic
8 Candle of invocation (lawful evil)
9 Golem Manual (clay)
10 Deck of Many Things

42) The Infernal Library
The Treaty has been taken from its pedestal.
DC Perception Result
< 15 You find nothing
15 Golem Manual (flesh)
18 Ion Stone (scarlet and blue sphere)
21 Blessed Book
24 Find an ancient seal for an eidolon. Linguistics DC 24 to discern the name, title, and history of the eidolon, Anneke, The Perfect Form. (1,200 xp)


So it is possible for the players to roll well enough to face no traps and no encounters. They get no treasure for doing so however but still earn some experience. By doing this I just have to create the rooms the monsters are in in case they have to face them. It is quick and by chaining them all together without out an opportunity to rest, it creates some good tension.

 

[jbear]

@OP I'm guessing you will find this blogpost about redefining the dungeon very interesting:

Reexamining the Dungeon

It has got me thinking, that's for sure.

I don't mind dungeons as a player or a DM, but I don't like them to be hugely long, nor without a reason to be down there or something going on.

I have included the first adventure from the Scales of War adventure path in my campaign, a classic rescue people from a dungeon adventure, although recooked and pimped out to be suitable for level 6 PCs. However I built an adventure hook into their entry there which had them run a social skill challenge upon making contact with the denizens of the place, which to cut a long story short allowed them to successfully wipe out the inhabitants in about 7 of the areas on the first level, leaving only 4 monster populated rooms on level 1 . That cuts things down to the length I'm prepared to deal with in a dungeon.