D&D Retro-clones

[GuJiaXian]

Huh, that's an interesting idea. Wouldn't you still run into the problem of 3.0 being mathematically built for characters to have +X weapons at level Y? I kind of want the earlier simplicity where even <i>finding</i> a magic item was a big deal. It wasn't "oh, another +2 sword...let's sell it."

Tricky. BECMI D&D (Labyrinth Lord) has race-as-class. AD&D 1st Edition (OSRIC) and 2nd Edition both had level limits for demihumans.

Given the choice, I'd rather have no race-as-class; I suppose I can live with level-limits for demihumans.

On that subject, and due to most of my older D&D experience being via video games, I don't remember my elf thief in Baldur's Gate having a level limit. Did they just toss out that role for the video games?

 

[Aus_Snow]

Given the choice, I'd rather have no race-as-class; I suppose I can live with level-limits for demihumans.

Hate to (again!) go pimping a game I've only played briefly. . .

But, BFRPG doesn't have race-as-class or level limits. From memory, Dwarves and Halflings can't be Magic-Users, and that's about it for restrictions of any kind. I also seem to remember a dual-class Fighter/M-U option that Elves can take. Not sure if that extended to Humans as well.

 

[ExploderWizard]

On that subject, and due to most of my older D&D experience being via video games, I don't remember my elf thief in Baldur's Gate having a level limit. Did they just toss out that role for the video games?

Every race except half-orcs were unlimited as thieves. The videogame was just using the RAW in this case.

 

[delericho]

Huh, that's an interesting idea. Wouldn't you still run into the problem of 3.0 being mathematically built for characters to have +X weapons at level Y? I kind of want the earlier simplicity where even <i>finding</i> a magic item was a big deal. It wasn't "oh, another +2 sword...let's sell it."

Somewhat, although I always felt it was a lot less exacting than even 3.5e. Also, the CR/EL system was always a bit of a rough guide at the best of times, so if your PCs have less gear than they 'should' have, just lower the average CRs a bit.

On that subject, and due to most of my older D&D experience being via video games, I don't remember my elf thief in Baldur's Gate having a level limit. Did they just toss out that role for the video games?

Thieves were unlimited in advancement in 2nd Edition.

(Of course, with OSRIC/1st Ed, you could very easily just drop the level limits. I know lots of groups did without too much hassle. Turns out that the 'balance' benefits weren't all that great. )

 

[Jack Daniel]

Thieves were unlimited in 1st edition. It was a holdover from the original game; thieves were introduced in the Greyhawk supplement, and for some reason, all races were allowed to be thieves and progress to any level in that class.

In 2nd edition, most demi-human races were limited (IIRC) to 12th level in the thief class, maybe a bit lower or higher, except for halflings, who could make it all the way to 15th level. (In 2nd edition, the level limits were considerably higher than they were in 1st, and just about every race had one or more classes that they could make 15th level in. The only non-human with access to unlimited advancement was the half-elf bard.)

The Baldur's Gate games, although based on the 2nd edition rules, did not include any demi-human level limits.

To the OP: If you want a game that has neither race-as-class nor level limits, I would definitely go with Basic Fantasy RPG. You could use Castles & Crusades, but it isn't free or finished. You could try OSRIC, but then you have to ignore the level limits and balance it out some other way, and anyway, OSRIC is a more complicated system. With BFRPG, you get the same simple game rules as Labyrinth Lord, and coupled with the Olde Dungeoneer's Almanack (from the BFRPG website) you can add however many extra complications or options to the game that you might wish for.

Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game

 

[Aurumvorax]

If you like Baldur's Gate, swing on by to my website and download For Gold & Glory. It's a faithful 2e retro clone and it's 95% finished. It has everything from the 2e core books except monsters but you can convert monsters from any AD&D style game (like OSRIC)

I conform to the racial class and level limits because the idea wasn't to stray too far from the source material. You can remove the class restrictions with zero work on your part (just snap your fingers and they're gone) but I'll berate you for it because I believe humans should remain special .

I'm also working on an OD&D retro clone. No, I don't mean Holmes' basic dressed up as OD&D nor do I mean roll 1d20 to attack OD&D. I'm talking about "Your dagger is a class 1 weapon vs. AC 6, roll 2d6 to see if you hit" OD&D.

 

[GuJiaXian]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I downloaded BFRPG last night and skimmed through the main rulebook and the supplemental monster manual. Very interesting--I like the simplicity (especially the brevity of the character sheet). I may give this a try with my wife and daughter (she'll be five in a few weeks).

Any suggestions as to fan books, modules, etc. for the system? It also looks like I can dump both 2E and 3.X monsters right in with only minor tweaks (mostly concerning saves).

 

[GuJiaXian]

If you like Baldur's Gate, swing on by to my website and download For Gold & Glory. It's a faithful 2e retro clone and it's 95% finished. It has everything from the 2e core books except monsters but you can convert monsters from any AD&D style game (like OSRIC) .

I just started skimming FG&G. Now, as I stated before, short of AD&D video games, I really don't know the AD&D rules (just the basics introduced by the games, but not the dice-rolling the computer does in the background). Is it safe to assume that your FG&G is, for all intents and purposes, AD&D 2E? That is, the Strength chart on page 9 corresponds directly to what I'd find in the actual AD&D 2E PHB?

 

[TerraDave]

Just a quick aside, magic items are important in all versions of D&D.

In short, in pre 2000 D&D, spell casters need them to supplment their daily spells, and non-casters need them to keep up with the casters. Though the first becomes less important at higher levels, and the second very important.

 

[Technomancer]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I downloaded BFRPG last night and skimmed through the main rulebook and the supplemental monster manual. Very interesting--I like the simplicity (especially the brevity of the character sheet). I may give this a try with my wife and daughter (she'll be five in a few weeks).

Any suggestions as to fan books, modules, etc. for the system? It also looks like I can dump both 2E and 3.X monsters right in with only minor tweaks (mostly concerning saves).

I don't know if you noticed, but there are a ton of supplements and adventures available for BFRPG for free from the same website where you can download the game itself.

BFRPG downloads