Gasp I think I am a grognard now

[gamerprinter]

Been playing the game isnce 1977, and now I am a Paizonian Pathfinder Grognard - hah!

GP

 

[Herschel]

Gamers behave, that’s what they say when we’re together, but what will they say-ay when rules as written we’ll try to bend ‘em, rolling just as fast as we can….holding out on changes once a-ga-ain (ga-an, ga-an, ga-an), try to keep away from our game nights the brand newfangled rulebooks, races, classes, weapons, magic and I’ll say, I think I’m a grognrard, there doesn’t seem to be a new game worth a da-arn, I think I’m a grognard, I like to think my character’s just off the fa-arm.

 

[billd91]

Anyhow, I find the New Coke analogy kind of odd, especially if 3.5 is supposed to represent "classic Coke." If anything is classic Coke it is OD&D and much of AD&D, especially pre-Dragonlance. 3E, when it came out, was New Coke. 4E? I dunno...Cherry Coke? Dr Pepper?

The analogy breaks down, but I just shake my head when people say that 3E is real D&D but 4E is not (the Classic/New Coke analogy being yet another variant). Both were quite different from the D&D that came before, and both were seen as "New Coke" when they came out to a certain minority of D&D players.

I think part of the problem is that you're missing the point of the Coke/New Coke analogy. When Coke came out with New Coke, they underestimated the strength of the identification customers had with their own brand. After decades of advertising and building the brand, they decided to substantially change the core product around which that brand identification had been built. Despite doing well in taste tests, they got burned by Coca-Cola brand identifying customers angry about the change.

The "old" Coke at the time of New Coke wasn't even the original formulation of the drink (though it probably wasn't far changed) so trying to tie old Coke to OD&D really isn't more true to the analogy and doesn't serve as much of a criticism. I can see people viewing 3x D&D as being close enough to an "Old Coke" stand-in in the analogy because 3e D&D strove to fit the brand established in 1e AD&D, the first member of the branch of D&Ds that 3x belongs to. It was directly marketed as such with the Back to the Dungeon emphasis. There were new features to be sure, but they were spun as being the latest way to capture the same feeling, embrace the same fantasy settings and adventures, extend the same brand, and encourage the same brand identification.

4e's got significant differences in design and play. The approach to the D&D brand was different up to and right after product launch. For some customers, that's a positive, but for others with strong identity ties to the old brand, it has been vexing. And here's where the strength of the New Coke analogy applies: I suspect WotC has been surprised by the strength and depth of some of those vexed reactions and is now taking major steps to link back to other elements of successful D&D branding like the D&D red box.

 

[Herschel]

Coke "Classic" still tastes like a combination of battery acid and dish soap though.

Come to think of it, I used more coke to clean car battery posts than I ever drank.

 

[gamerprinter]

My conspiracy theory regarding the flavor of Coke...

The formula used as the flavor for Coke, before new Coke is not the same thing as Coca-cola Classic. It just tastes more like 'old Coke'.

I believe the company was making a switch in the formula (to something cheaper to produce), and used the New Coke as a ruse to hide the scent of doing something to change the original flavor to the cheaper version. The Coke fans got up in arms against New Coke, and then to satisfy their wants, created Coca-cola Classic.

All this was purposely done. Coca-cola Classic is not the same thing as Coca-cola before New Coke, but its closer to the taste.

Had Coca-Cola made the change from Old Coke to Coke Classic directly, the difference would have been noticed - and it would have been a problem.

Since Coca-Cola Classic didn't show up for a couple months (year?) nobody noticed the taste change between Classic and original.

Only us 'conspiracy theorists' know the difference!

GP

 

[Raven Crowking]

Was that when Coke went from cane sugar to corn sugar?

 

[CarlZog]

I believe the company was making a switch in the formula (to something cheaper to produce), and used the New Coke as a ruse to hide the scent of doing something to change the original flavor to the cheaper version.

I have always shared this belief.

Coca-Cola used cane sugar. Coke Classic uses high fructose corn syrup.

 

[wingsandsword]

I have always shared this belief.

Coca-Cola used cane sugar. Coke Classic uses high fructose corn syrup.

You can still get coke made with cane sugar, if you know where/how to look.

The grocery stores around here stock Coca Cola, re-imported from Mexico where they make it with sugar instead of HFCS. Costs substantially more, but you really can taste the difference. If there ever was any doubt that HFCS makes coke tastes just a little different, and just a little worse, than actual sugar, buy some of both and blind taste-test them yourself.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Kosher COCA-COLA is also HFCS-free.

I live near lots of bodegas and Kosher delis - yay me!