D&D is now in (exceedingly awesome) commercial form

[Mistwell]

Which is problematic, because that wasn't what the BECMI Basic Set was designed to do back in the day: The BECMI Basic Set was a fully functional game; not a disposable, pay-to-preview advertising gimmick.

I learned D&D from the Blue Cover basic set. And that book frequently made references to AD&D, and it was clearly written to get people to graduate into AD&D. That was I think the point of calling one basic, and one advanced. Only later did it really become it's own fully functional game. And even then, the Basic book was always intended to get you to buy some other book...the Expert book being the next in line eventually. And then there were modules, and dice, and miniatures, and magazines...it was always stuff intended to get you to buy other stuff. That's the nature of it being an ongoing business venture.

WotC talked a good game, but the new Starter Set isn't the spiritual inheritor of the Red Box. Instead, it's yet another product taking its inspiration from AD&D's First Quest: Try to get people to pay $20 or $30 for a demo version of the game that's designed to be stuck on the shelf and never looked at again once they buy the real version of the game. (And maybe if you load it up with enough bling, they won't notice that they just paid for advertising.)

You can play a lot of real games with the new Red Box. It's a mischaracterization to call it purely advertising.

Justin Alexander talked once about the lack of a gateway product for D&D. And he recently followed that up with a discussion of how the Starter Set perpetuates that track record of failure.

And I disagree with Justin, I think this will be a success, and I think he's wrong about some of those prior products.

As for the ad? Stinks of failure.

(1) There are ways to appeal to nostalgia which will also be accessible to people who don't share that nostalgia. This ad, AFAICT, is completely inaccessible to anyone who isn't a current or past D&D player.

I disagree. The images can be compelling without knowing their origin. It's not like they are non-images. They're quite evocative of a certain type of art and music and style that, as someone else pointed out, is frequently already popular right now elsewhere in places like Adult Swim.

(2) The ad is bafflingly incomplete. The D&D website currently has the full tagline of the advertising campaign: "ATTEND YE GODS, THE BOX IS BACK". The key element missing from the ad itself is "THE BOX IS BACK", which is kind of problematic since it's the only thing which makes the ad at all explicable.

It's a release of D&D. That's all it needs to communicate. The Box is Back isn't necessary information to achieve the goal of getting people who like that kind of ad to buy that game.

(3) On a similar note, they seem to have gone out of their way to make it difficult for people to figure out what they're selling. (Without actually going so far as to make it mysterious enough to intrigue on a viral level.) They show the box at the end, but manage to obscure the title. And including an HTML address in a funky font doesn't make up for it.

I can see the title just fine, and the URL font doesn't look difficult to read to me either. It's a 30 second spot so they were not going to communicate what D&D really is with more than the images they already portrayed.

I think the ad just isn't for you, but communicates well to the people it's directed at.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Who is Justin Alexander and why should I care about his hilariously wrong opinion?

Also the original Red Box was never intended to be a one shot sale that had the whole game. It's always been a buyable demo to bring people into the game as a whole.

 

[billd91]

Well, the fact that TSR decided to essentially sell two "Advanced" versions of the game (i.e. AD&D and a fully-expanded, 1st - 30th level "Basic Plus" game) doesn't change the fact that the purpose of the Red Box was to get players hooked so that they would buy more product. Ask anyone who worked for TSR back in the early 80s and I'm sure they will tell you the goal for the Red Box wasn't to make a one time sale to a customer who would never buy another TSR product again.

Sure they wanted them to buy more product, so they sold them - adventures and an expansion to the line behind the Red Box. They weren't intended to replace the Red Box. They were intended to extend it. And that went all the way up to the Rules Cyclopedia which compiled them all, finally making the Red Box obsolete like the AD&D line had not.

 

[Henry]

I get the impression that it's because of, not in spite of, a lot of posters' knowledge and experience with 4E that would cause them to be disappointed with what the new Red Box contains. I can't prove it, but that that's the impression I get.

Would someone REALLY be disappointed in the rules of a game they played 25 years ago not being exactly the same, especially when they still get to play meat shields, or wield big weapons and smash things, or sling spells and fry enemies like they used to? In fact, more often than they used to, given the wizards' and clerics small spell load in the olden days?

It's not like they're going to say, "what's this 'healing surge' crap? I used to have to stay camped in town for two weeks to heal! I'm outta here!" Chances are they're not going to be overly concerned with play style, nuances of game mechanics, or engaging in debates on verisimilitude after being away from the game for 25 years. Give 'em a couple months of play before they start doing that, first. I guarantee two things:

1) A heck of a lot of us old timers used some form of spatial representation when they played D&D - enough to say that it wasn't just some minor splinter-thing. Given RPGs' wargaming roots, I'd say it was a plurality if not a majority playing with minis and square or hex-grids.

2)You can get an old-school dungeon crawling hack and slashing sensibility playing the red box stuff just like you could back in the original red box. The people who lapsed back then aren't itching to pick up the Red Box so they can do in-depth character exploration or roleplay; they're picking it up to roll dice and kill goblins. Some may be disappointed that you don't take two weeks to heal up 1 hit point per day, or that their wizard is only casting two spells a day, sure -- but I think the majority is going to care more about whacking hobgoblins with a two-handed sword while their magic-user, excuse me, wizard pops someone with a magic missile and the thief gets a backstab in.

 

[Nifft]

Who is Justin Alexander and why should I care about his hilariously wrong opinion?

He's a guy!
With a blog!

"Watch your back!", -- N

 

[buddhafrog]

Again, lots of varying opinions. I feel that most of the anger/disappointment for this ad falls in either one of three camps:

1) you love D&D and wish there were better outreach. You are frustrated with the lack of new players and WOTC's lack of ability to get new players. You feel that this ad falls far, far short of that goal.

I get this, but I think you are limiting your view. WOTC has done a ton of work this year trying to make D&D more accessible/approachable. The Red Box and the Essential Box Sets have been this year's primary focus - and they both meet that goal. There has been increasing internet visibility to D&D through youtube games (see the recent PAX live play. This ad is another. None of these alone is enough, and together they are not necessarily "enough." However, why are we assuming this is the only marketing WOTC will use? It appears that this 30 SECONDS ad is very effective for some, and that alone is a possitive.​

2) you are not a fan of 4e and WOTC in general.

I may be perceiving incorrectly, but some of the naysayers here seem particularly biased against 4e and whether referencing the Red Box will in turn turn people off when they buy it and realize it is different than the original Red Box. WOTC seems pretty happy that this is different than the original. I am choosing to play 4e b/c I think it is a much better game systems than the original. I would hope new gamers would be introduced to D&D through 4e instead of the original AD&D b/c I think it is a matured, more complex version that is better to keep their attention.​

3) you just think the video sucks.

not much argument against someone's opinion, except to say that some others love the ad. Would you prefer no ad? If I saw a D&D ad that I didn't like, I think I'd still be glad that it was out there to attracts some new people into the game. There is no one magic pill that will attract everyone.​

 

[jbear]

I liked the commercial, but if I knew less about 4e and Essentials, I would have been very, very disappointed had it led me to buying the red box. Great ad for TSR-D&D, though.

In fact, were I WotC, I would be somewhat concerned about customers complaining that the red box is intentionally designed to create confusion with a different product that they might have been familiar with. It seems very misleading to me.

YMMV.


RC

Keep in mind it leads the to 4e ESSENTIALS. Different but old school flavoured 4e. So, not so misleading.

 

[Ourph]

Sure they wanted them to buy more product, so they sold them - adventures and an expansion to the line behind the Red Box. They weren't intended to replace the Red Box. They were intended to extend it. And that went all the way up to the Rules Cyclopedia which compiled them all, finally making the Red Box obsolete like the AD&D line had not.

They also sold AD&D hardbacks at the same time, and history shows that the vast majority of AD&D players started out with some form of the Basic Box. I understand you're trying to draw some kind of distinction between 80's era TSR and 4e-era WotC, but I'm not seeing it. Both companies saw/see the Basic Box as the first in (hopefully) a long line of purchases from new customers.

 

[rogueattorney]

2) you are not a fan of 4e and WOTC in general.

I may be perceiving incorrectly, but some of the naysayers here seem particularly biased against 4e and whether referencing the Red Box will in turn turn people off when they buy it and realize it is different than the original Red Box. WOTC seems pretty happy that this is different than the original. I am choosing to play 4e b/c I think it is a much better game systems than the original. I would hope new gamers would be introduced to D&D through 4e instead of the original AD&D b/c I think it is a matured, more complex version that is better to keep their attention.​

I think I'm in this category. And it's not that I particularly dislike 4e. It's simply not the game for me. I just find the strategy of selling a game that reminds people of the game they used to play instead of the old game itself to be an odd one. The reason WotC is doing it is obviously because WotC thinks that their new product is quite a bit better than the old product. And obviously 4e fans like you are going to agree with them.

But the question is whether "the new-old guys" will find it to be a fun improvement or whether it will be too alien to them to scratch the nostalgia itch they were going for. You've seen the evolution of the game over the past 25 years or perhaps have only experienced the game in its newer forms. Someone who went into an rpg coma 25 years ago hasn't. I'm curious about the reaction, negative, positive, otherwise.

And more than anything else, I'm curious to see to what extent the lapsed buyers become repeat customers. If WotC just wanted to sell people a red box so the purchaser can scratch the nostalgia itch, they'd simply put out the old red box again. It's clear they want to get the buyers of the new red box to become D&D customers for the new system.

This seems to me to be the first time TSR/WotC have acknowledged that there's a bunch of lapsed rpg'ers from the 80s who are potential customers and put something together to go after them. I felt that the "Back to the Dungeon" campaign from 3e was more of an attempt to get people who were still rpg'ers who just weren't buying D&D products anymore to get back into D&D. I feel like this effort could go a step beyond that towards those who aren't playing any rpg anymore, and for that reason am very curious about how it all works out.

 

[buddhafrog]

But the question is whether "the new-old guys" will find it to be a fun improvement or whether it will be too alien to them to scratch the nostalgia itch they were going for. You've seen the evolution of the game over the past 25 years or perhaps have only experienced the game in its newer forms. Someone who went into an rpg coma 25 years ago hasn't. I'm curious about the reaction, negative, positive, otherwise.

And more than anything else, I'm curious to see to what extent the lapsed buyers become repeat customers. If WotC just wanted to sell people a red box so the purchaser can scratch the nostalgia itch, they'd simply put out the old red box again. It's clear they want to get the buyers of the new red box to become D&D customers for the new system.

good post.

Interestingly, I'm the type of person you are talking about. I played daily for a few years in the 80's (AD&D, not the Red Box), then I sort of just stopped as my DM brother moved out of the house and life changed. I started playing again only last Christmas when I ordered a ton of minis for my 9 year old son to play with -- and it sort of hit me like a brick -- "why the heck don't I play D&D with him?" It's one of the best decisions I've made in years for my own enjoyment, let alone my son's.

I researched which version to play and decided upon 4e only b/c it was the newest and thus more likely to be the most accessible for my son. I love my AD&D memories and experience. But 4e is great for me, and in particular, the way we play it (more gritty, less healing surges, a few homebrews, etc).

I can't compare it to 2e, 3e, or 3.5. But from jumping from AD&D to 4e, I was very, very happy. I've matured and I like the added complexity and strategy compared to AD&D. More so, I think it is the best game for my son b/c it might be a little more tangible, and the power system is one that he can grasp the concept of pretty easily. And yes, since I started playing again, I've given more cash to WoTC than my wife would like to know.

I listened to a WOTC podcast that clearly emphasized that the Red Box is for new players, but using the exact Red Box graphics was also specifically in hopes that old gamers would see it sitting on the shelf at Target, etc, and buy it for their children - bringing new gamers into D&D. I think this commercial does a pretty good job with that one specific goal.