Game Balance - D&D Essentials and the Adventuring Day

[igniz13]

The slayer is the only essentials class which is basic. That's the one who's mainly just walking around making attacks, but even he has some complexities in play.

Not only do the Thief and Knight work well, they do add a lot to battlefield.

The thief and his movement tricks influences enemy positioning just by existing. A trick to get CA against isolated foes doesn't work if the party group up, but a trick that hurts people that group up does work, not to mention a controller nuking them. A thief who has to use a shifting power to escape being flanked also looses on other opportunities. So all in all, the Theif influences combat like a game of chess (or perhaps cat and mouse).

The Knight is different, but still brings an element of chess to the board. Unlike every other defender, the Knight only has to stand somewhere to influence enemy movements. You might not want to move next to a Fighter, but he can't mark everyone, a Knight can, does and responds with his OA's not a single use Immediate Interupt. Moving adjacent to a Knight is a major consideration for an enemy, so if the knight is standing in a spot where their aura covers the people he wants to defend, the enemy has to risk a lot by daring to move to those squares.

So their play style is actually quite complex. They may not be exciting for others who may not be involved with the mindgames these new classes bring to the table, but for the players they can be a really engaging class to play.

 

[RLBURNSIDE]

Essentials v Non-Essentials

Don't forget encounter powers. I think probably by Epic (we aren't there yet, I'm just imagining), if typical combats last as long as they do now, we'll see at-wills being used only once or twice per combat, given how many encounter powers there are. Those are resources that can and should be used as often and early as possible in the most advantageous way every battle.

If essentials PCs sacrifice burst damage for sustained DPR, one side-effect is that hit-or-miss dailies, being gone, no longer lower your overall damage significantly when you miss. We are notorious Daily-missers in our group. That's why I like stance powers and such.

But that brings me to another point. Let's say I play a ranger, and am considering playing a Scout. By epic, I'll be giving up non-chalant collapse, possibly Hurricane of Blades if I have access to it, and Ultimate Confrontation. This whole time, when a battle is really tough, I can boost it with Snarling Wolf Stance. The benefit of being able to nova cannot be understated. If an enemy has 1hp left because you are an Essentials guy, and is dead because you are a non-essentials guy, your choice whether to sleep at the end of this encounter is taken away from you. At some point there is a hard limit.

Sure, if you want a marathon work day, Essentials characters probably come out ahead, and I like chess game mechanics in 4e since I love minis (and chess, too to some extent).

Anyway, we'll see what the rest of the classes have to offer. But I don't see most Essentials classes being able to compare with a Twin Striking Ranger with Ultimate Confrontation and a bunch of minor action powers, action points, extra standard actions, etc...just don't see how. Burst damage is fun. Sustained DPR, not so much. I mean, there is a balance between the two, but we have yet to see the Scout and other options in the next Essentials book. I guess a mix of Essentials and non-essentials character could work.

I personally hate the daily mechanic, and would much rather a bit less bursty but hit-or-miss (especially if I activate a daily stance like SWS and only get one or two attacks off because the creature is attacking my allies who are marking it and teasing it away from me, etc). With at-will stances, it becomes that much more important for the party to synergize well with your tactics.

Healing surges rule! I hated that mechanic at first, but I realize it solved a lot of pre-4e problems and now it makes me not want to play 3.5 as much. All players should be engaged, as much as possible. When you run out of surges, it's time to rest (or run!). But players are often blasé about death in this edition, and yes, combats last a long time. I like'em personally.

A balance issue with surges now that we have a large party is our rogue is ALWAYS running out of surges, always getting into the most trouble, always at the front line, and then after 2-3 encounters when he goes into combat bloodied with 1 surge left and wonders why he goes down all the time, while the rest of the party still has 1/2 their surges left. Gonna ask my DM if he an grant him an auto-retrain to Durable so the party isn't left needing to take an extended rest without having used anywhere near all their dailies.

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

Having run Essentials-only games for the past four weeks I can say with experience:

Healing surges are still the coin of the realm post-Essentials.

Also, the Essentials feat that gives extra healing surges should be very early on every character's list, not just knights'.

 

[Shin Okada]

A balance issue with surges now that we have a large party is our rogue is ALWAYS running out of surges, always getting into the most trouble, always at the front line, and then after 2-3 encounters when he goes into combat bloodied with 1 surge left and wonders why he goes down all the time, while the rest of the party still has 1/2 their surges left. Gonna ask my DM if he an grant him an auto-retrain to Durable so the party isn't left needing to take an extended rest without having used anywhere near all their dailies.

My experience is the same. A melee striker (and then melee leader) tend to deplete his healing surges per day first. And that is when a party must consider resting or retreating.

Having an Artificer or someone uses Comrades' Succor ritual in Dragon #380, helps much. And a Paladin with Lay on Hands helps somewhat. But taking Durable and/or other feats (and items) which give additional healing surges per day is a good idea for melee strikers. That is especially true for a rogue.

 

[TheClone]

Why isn't your rogue using ranged weapons? It's 1d8+2+Dex + Sneak Attacks. And you have powers to gain CA from range as you have for melee. That will save many HPs. In our Red Box sessions I ended up holding a short sword in one hand and a dagger in the other. Either I stabbed with the sword or I threw a dagger. It offered a lot of flexibility and I could attack from a save distance without needing to draw weapons to switch to melee. The thief loosing too many surges shouldn't be a matter for the DM and "cheating" but of different tactics. A thief is not the guy for running around in the first line or between enemies all the time. He also has to use the Knight or other defenders to survive.

 

[Shin Okada]

Why isn't your rogue using ranged weapons? It's 1d8+2+Dex + Sneak Attacks. And you have powers to gain CA from range as you have for melee.

Well, basically, unless you are an essential thief with appropriate tricks, it is somewhat harder to gain combat advantage against an opponent without using melee attack (or using ranged attack from flanking position).

Flanking is the most popular and easy-to-access way to get combat advantage. Yes you can take Distant Advantage feat. But that means your party has one less melee combatant (and if I emphasis, one less melee combatant with good speed and movement-related powers) and thus, flanking an opponent becomes slightly (or largely) more difficult for your party.

You can gain combat advantage in other ways, when your comrades have appropriate powers and use them so that you can gain advantage. But the most popular ones knock the opponent prone and in that case you need to go adjacent to the target anyway. There are other good powers and tactics (say, powers which daze some opponents), but those are not always available.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Also, the Essentials feat that gives extra healing surges should be very early on every character's list, not just knights'.

You mean Durable? Its not really an "essentials" feat, as it is also in PH1. That said, it is a good feat, especially for the lower surge melee characters such as thieves, war priests, melee rangers, etc.

For an actual "essentials" (as in, introduced in essentials) feat for boosting your staying power, Swift Recovery is great, as it bumps your healing surge value, giving you more bang for your healing surge buck.

 

[shamsael]

The 4e adventuring day essentially has two distinct clocks which count down, for the most part, at the same speed. These clocks are Healing Surges and Daily powers. When either or both of these clocks ticks down to zero, that is to say when the party as a whole has run out of daily powers or a significant number of its members have run out of healing surges, the day is over.

Essentials removes one of these clocks, daily powers, but the presence of the remaining clock, healing surges, ensures that the adventuring day remains about as long as it was before, and in some cases slightly longer as we will no longer choose to retreat from an adventure because our martial characters are running dry on daily powers, and therefor the ability to efficiently tackle tough encoutners, while still having access to surges.