November 16th release for Web-based Character Builder

[JoeGKushner]

Or they will just use something else and someone else get's their money

or they will continue to play 4E and not buy anything else

or they will move on to something else that they think is a better company to deal with

And it won't be the first time.

I know gamers that walked away from WoTC when they made Dragon and Dungeon PDF.

I know gamers that walked away when they stopped selling the PDFs.

I imagine this will be more of the same.

One of the hints WoTC might want to take is that revamping your rules to more closely mimick the old styles won't bring back the people who left because they think the company is run by a company that feels its consumers are criminals.

 

[RLBURNSIDE]

worse than criminals

cretins! Criminals don't pay expressly for the privilege of being sent to jail.

Keeping my character under lock and key to protect their IP is not a fair trade, for any money. My character is MY IP, and no way am I paying them to hold it hostage in their cloud.

 

[fuzzlewump]

It seems like what people want is an offline program that can view and edit their characters. Anyone have thoughts on how it could work? Maybe very limited capabilities, like only a few characters can be loaded at a time, but for those characters you can look at all the rules those characters need, including all power selections for their level +1 and under. I feel like something like this would be a good middle ground.

The web tools keep track of how many characters you currently have loaded into the offline tools, and you have to log-on with the 'offline tools' and add or delete characters you made in the web tools. Then you take your offline tools to the internet-free zone and play with that.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I've never subscribed to DDI. I have used CB character sheets for pregens build by enthused players with CB, and I have done a few characters with my current DM's copy. It's not a bad program, though it has some limitations.

One of those limitations is it basically let players download /everything/ they needed to build a character - the contents of quite a few $35 books. Anyone with the patience to update only once or twice a year was making off with quite a lot of 'consumer surplus,' which WotC would understandably want to capture. We can only speculate on the prevelence of such 'passes,' but WotC unavoidably has hard data on the phenomenon. Aparently, it was enough of a problem that this strikes them as a better idea.

....

For myself, I don't use character sheets for 4e, I put everything down on index cards. The actual sum total of your character apart from things like powers & items that fit conveniently on index cards take up about 3 index cards, themselves (basic stats, skills, mundane gear/cash) and it's more convenient to have a 'deck' than a sheet + a deck. JMHO, IMPX.

 

[Phaezen]

WotC has said this stuff in their boards, go check it out. They mentioned no export (less than current offering)

in priority development, but not at launch

& no customization of items or feats (less than the current one offers).

in development, but not at launch

Now they can add that, but what they will roll out on the 18th does not have that.

I am planning to evaluate the new CB on release and consider my options afterwards. But count me excited for the possibilities the new platform could offer.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

...
Look, here's the thing. A tabletop roleplaying game that is so cumbersome and ponderous as to nigh REQUIRE attachment to an electronic teat of streaming data just might be a tad too ridiculous for the gamer that just wants to have fun and doesn't want a hobby that feels so much like work.
...

The CB is not required, one of my players knockked out a 3rd level warlord from just the PHB while the rest of us were doing the prelimenaries of a Chaos Scar adventure, 2 weeks ago. I got to say having a cleric, a warlord and a Ranger in the party, the monsters might as well not show up.
I though the orb wizard was bad enough.

 

[JoeGKushner]

People keep saying it lets you download every book.

No, it doesn't.

It lets you download the mechanics of each book.

Which is one of the reasons I keep saying WoTC needs to give the rules away and focus on the elements that cannot be handled with mechanics.

Hell, make several boxed set adventuers every year with nandouts, miniatures, and other bits. Include some things in there so that they double as board games.

Put more effort into cordinating the miniature releases with the release of adventurers.

Make the miniature line as profitible as it was where people were talking that it was more protifible than the books.

Make more effort into the physical hand outs, like the stuff Gale Force 9 is doing.

So much WoTC could be doing to promote the game as opposed to their efforts to control the game.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Since it keeps coming up, I'll keep mentioning it:

They didn't mention "getting the rules for cheap" as one of the things this was meant to solve.

The CB still contains all the character data on every book written and you can access it all for a single $10 payment, whip up your character (or a few) for 30 levels in a month, and then have, functionally, everything you need to play 4e, just like you would've before.

That's still an awesome selling point for it.

Going web-based means you don't have a lot of the rules you never use on your hard drive.

That was never a big attraction for anyone with the CB as far as I can tell.

The big deal was that I could make a character using all the rules available to 4e at the time.

That's still true.

The people who get boned on this update are not the value-seekers who pay $10 and then go.

The people who get boned on this update are (a) the people with unreliable internet connections when they play and prep, and (b) the people who pirated the info.* The former sucks and they should be cancelling their subs if they can't work around it. The latter kind of sucks, in an abstract way, but WotC can't be making products to appease people who don't pay for the product, so it's hard to blame them for it.

WotC is kind of betting there's more mac users who want DDI out there then there are folks with unreliable internet currently subbed...which is a bet, as a businessdude, that I would probably take, too.

* There's some fallout with "people who don't want to rent the rules" and "people who don't want to feel like they're being treated as potential criminals" and "people who think this is an elaborate attempt to steal their derivative works" and a few others, but those are mostly niche -- though they could in total wind up to be more than that.

 

[renau1g]

in priority development, but not at launch


in development, but not at launch



I am planning to evaluate the new CB on release and consider my options afterwards. But count me excited for the possibilities the new platform could offer.

I know it's in development, but Bob asked what everyone was saying about reduction in options. Remember, soon is the ubiquitous word

 

[renau1g]

The CB still contains all the character data on every book written

It also means that if/when Wizards moves onto the next edition you can't access said materials (assuming wizards follows everyone else in supporting your current offering rather than past ones). The fact that people are excited about a loss of functionality confuses me.

Also, your comment about niche people is interesting. Have you facts to back it up? I've seen a lot more than "niche" over on Wizards boards...