Essentials classes question

[Thraug]

We just started a 4e campaign using regular classes (not from Essentials) and we're already seeing power and condition overload. After reading a few recent threads here on epic tier play, and how crazy the power, condition, and combat complexity gets I thought that it might be a good idea to switch to Essentials only classes, hoping they were easier to play and generated less conditions and were less fiddly. I own the first Heroes of the F****** books but haven't read it yet.

My question is for folks who have read and understand the classes in both Essentials Heroes books:

• Are Essentials classes easier to play?
• Do Essentials classes generate less conditions than previous classes?
• Do Essentials classes have less powers/abilities than previous classes?

Thank you folks!

 

[cavalier973]

The martial classes are more streamlined; fighters and rogues have no encounter or daily powers.
In the game I'm playing, the dwarf Knight has four powers: An at-will Defender Aura (aura 1, enemies in the aura take a -2 penalty to attacks against anyone other than the Knight; this is in lieu of marking enemies), an at-will Battle Guardian effect (the Knight gets an opportunity attack against enemies in his aura that either shift or attack an ally of the Knight; if he misses, the enemy still takes damage equal to the Knight's Strength modifier), an at-will "Defend the Line" stance (The Knight slows an enemy that he hits when this stance is active), and an at-will "Cleaving Assault" stance (the Knight does damage to an adjacent enemy other than the one he hit, equal to his CON modifier).

The halfling thief in this game has two "tricks", which are at-will move actions. The first allows him to move his speed, then gain combat advantage against an enemy if the enemy has no adjacent allies. The second allows him to shift two squares, then knock an enemy prone with a melee attack.

The Cleric has two at-will faith powers, one that grants a saving throw, even if she misses the enemy, the other grants damage resistance equal to her CON modifier to herself or one ally within range. The Cleric uses WIS instead of STR to make attacks, even with her mace. She also has a couple of encounter powers and one daily power.

The Mage is about as complicated as the PHB Wizard. The spells, being school-specific, are nice. The wizard in our game focused on enchantment, so he can use hypnosis to cause an enemy to attack one of its allies. The essentials wizard doesn't begin with the Ritual Caster feat, like the PHB Wizard does.

 

[Oulak]

I'd say that the biggest difference is that the essentials classes don't have core class functions that require tracking. For instance, defenders don't have a mark to track in combat (which monster was combat challenged, which monster was divine challenged, and was that challenge engaged, etc), strikers don't have a strike mechanism to track (which target is already warlock cursed, which one is my quarry again, etc). That kind of stuff is all baked into the class powers and requires no additional tracking.

It doesn't seem like actual conditions (slow, dazed, stunned, etc) are fewer, but these should be easier to track as there are now fewer things overall being tracked.

 

[fba827]

[*]Are Essentials classes easier to play?

That's a subjective answer. They do play differently. Whether that's easier or not is a matter of preference and play style.

For instance, with the uniform power progression of the original PHBs, it makes it easier to pick up any class and go right at it or have one player be able to easily answer questions for other players about their progression/powers. But with the HotF* books, the progression is different for each class so it takes more effort to try a different class or for your fellow players to know off hand what the others are/aren't capable of without doing actual research.

Having said that, in my opinion, in general the HotF* classes are 'simpler' Though no more or no less 'easier'

[*]Do Essentials classes generate less conditions than previous classes?

Not sure if they generate fewer conditions -- it depends a lot on what powers the players choose. But there is a little less condition tracking in that some of the marks and curses have been redone as auras so you'll have at least a couple less things to keep track of. Of course, if you don't have any defenders or warlocks to begin with, then you won't really see that change come in to play at your table.

[*]Do Essentials classes have less powers/abilities than previous classes?

Ah, that's a hard one to answer as a blanket response because all the classes have different progressions now.

martial classes in particular have fewer.
Some of the classes get more frequent uses of a single encounter power rather than multiple different types of encounter powers.


I will say that some of the HotF* class builds are designed better in terms of attribute requirements - such as the paladin. In the PHB, some of the paladin builds require a spread of 3 'good or better' ability scores. Compared to the HotFK paladin builds which require a spread of 2 'good or better' ability scores, allowing for more specialization.


Both essentials and nonessentials classes work fine next to each other. So if you want, just open the option of HotF* classes to the players. Some may like it, some may not, but you'll give them the option rather than requiring it one way or the other.

 

[Neonchameleon]

We just started a 4e campaign using regular classes (not from Essentials) and we're already seeing power and condition overload. After reading a few recent threads here on epic tier play, and how crazy the power, condition, and combat complexity gets I thought that it might be a good idea to switch to Essentials only classes, hoping they were easier to play and generated less conditions and were less fiddly. I own the first Heroes of the F****** books but haven't read it yet.

My question is for folks who have read and understand the classes in both Essentials Heroes books:

• Are Essentials classes easier to play?

It depends. On one end of the spectrum, the Slayer is easier than even a barbarian or two weapon ranger ever is. It's the class for people who want to Just Hit Something. On the other, the differences between the mage and the wizard are ... minor. The martial classes are all easier, as is the Hexblade. The rest - not noticeably different.

• Do Essentials classes generate less conditions than previous classes?

Fewer routine conditions, certainly. No one marks. No one quarries or curses. But the mage still has all his old status inflicting tricks.

• Do Essentials classes have less powers/abilities than previous classes?

That depends what you mean. They normally have more abilities - but fewer options at each given level when you level up and fewer at each decision point so it's easier to manage. (The mage is an obvious exception here).

 

[Nullzone]

It's probably worth noting that many of these classes can appear boring when all of your abilities boil back to "I hit it with my axe/sword/dagger/hammer/bow" since (with the exception of the storm priest) all of their powers and features simply augment your melee or ranged basic attacks.

But having played both a Slayer and a Knight, I can definitely say that if it seems boring, it's not because of the class' playability, and you will very likely have your fears assuaged if you just play one. You can spend less time in analysis paralysis and more time actually being the hero/badass you no doubt envisioned when you made the character, while at the same time remaining every bit combat effective.

Edit: Also, the mage may not be very different from a traditional wizard but they get Magic Missile for free ON TOP OF two at-wills, so it wins in my book

 

[Rune]

Edit: Also, the mage may not be very different from a tradtitional wizard but they get Magic Missile for free ON TOP OF two at-wills, so it wins in my book

Also, they get fewer cantrips, so less to keep track of in that regard.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Actually i wished, magic missile was officially a replacement for the 4th cantrip. An option, every wizard can take.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Actually i wished, magic missile was officially a replacement for the 4th cantrip. An option, every wizard can take.

I have been toying with the idea of houseruling that. Swapping out a combat power for something more utilitarian shouldn't be broken, or even remotely unbalanced. Alternately, if someone wanted to give up Ghost Sound for MM, I don't see the big deal.

Likewise, I've been considering giving the Wizard the same choice(s) of Cantrips. That would pretty much boil the Wizard/Mage argument down to School Spec vs. Implement Spec.

Though any Mage I play would need Ritual Caster, be it via multiclass or Mark of Scribing.

 

[Aegeri]

I have houseruled since the original mage article that Wizards get magic missile for free in general. This actually works very well, because it's honestly just bad enough this isn't a problem - while being useful enough it's a good idea. I don't feel the power would ever be worth taking over a normal at-will, but it isn't going to break anything if given for free.