Shintoesque D&D

[Korgoth]

Sure, in 3E that would be a good way to handle spell acquisition. In 4E, where most combat-related powers are integral in some way to the classes, there are "rituals" which handle traditionally non-combat applications (and which are more far-reaching in scope); rituals could be entirely the province of the spirits. You need a divination or somebody brought back from the land of the dead? You have to find a spirit of appropriate power to do the deed. And what it wants in return may be quite interesting!

In Old School D&D you could just divorce the conditions of spell acquisition from explicit mechanics: at 1st level a Cleric usually starts with no spells (or only 1, depending);... you could say that his "spell list" is empty or only has 1 entry related to his patron shrine (if you know "Cure Light Wounds" then it is a spirit that can heal, etc.). The Cleric can add to this when he goes on further adventures and negotiates with spirits.

Though I'm actually inclined to write this up for 4E Essentials... one interesting thing about 4E is that the monsters have diverse and flavorful powers (though there's no reason they cannot have those in other editions, obviously). But this setting would require monsters that felt quite unique.

This setting would also allow normally dumb monsters to be given personalities. Just because the spirit looks like an owlbear and has those stats doesn't mean that he cannot talk, or is stupid like a stock owlbear. Maybe he's a sage, maybe he's grumpy, maybe he's rapacious... maybe all the above.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Before I converted to 4e I skirted with the idea of adding to the divine caster by tying them to a shrine, which could be grown in size and emminence into a chapel and eventually a temple.
It was part of my 'skills and feats' adaptations that I had planned on replacing all the basic classes with, similar to the skill and feats monk by Ken Hood. I had adapted the Paladin and was working on the Cleric.

Essentially, the gateway feat included the setting up of a local Shrine and allowed access to the 'Dedication' skill. Casting spells were an almagation of skill checks and the Elements of Magic system.

This had a tendency to tie a PC into a general area, especially when they upgraded from a Shrine to a chapel, but to me that was a feature

 

[jmucchiello]

I've always wanted to do this on the arcane side. In a manner similar to the Deverry novels by Katherine Kerr. There would exist invisible elemental spirits that arcanists can talk to in order to bring about an effect. The language of magic is the language of the elemental spirits. Perhaps use a skill based magic system where your magic skill is opposed by the spirit's diplomacy skill in order to coax a magical effect out of them.

 

[Haltherrion]

I like that concept and my current campaign is built firmly on it. My inspiration is more directly from Greek and Celtic spirits (who co-existed with the gods) but I think it is in-line with what you propose.

My spirits do manifest themselves rather than remain as an "off screen" presence but all divine classes in the game must attune to one or more spirits (it's a function of level) for their divine powers. Localities have patron spirits that they honor. Criminals are sacrificed to these patrons. Local festivals are centered around the spirits.

The world does have gods but these are "little" gods, immortals who took on some of the trappings of god-hood in an earlier age when they became involved with the progression of souls. These gods do take a small number of people to their halls (like the Norse gods) but otherwise, have little interaction with mortals. It's the spirits that are in the day to day life of people.

The game is mostly centered on humans and elves. There aren't any large groups of other humanoids in the world. The PCs have met many spirits in the game, some who will aid them given proper inducements, some who are very difficult to work with.

Most recently they met a water spirit in an isolated vale that wants his valley cleansed of "unclean" forces. He offered a powerful magic sword to someone who would swear to undertake this task (which is quite massive and not really practical for the playes to do unless they spend many years here). A PC took the sword and was essentially geased to remain in the valley while the rest of the party could come and go. The player had to run an alt-PC while the group wasn't in the valley although he has since managed to escape the grasp of the sword after a number of sessions.

One of the bases the players used was created by a spirit and the main elvish city is built in 4 huge trees, each the home of a spirit.

We play 4E so as a game mechanic, divine classes ignore the standard divine channeled powers and instead pick powers related to their spirits. The spirits also grant one-shot items related to their domains.

Anyway, it's been a very fun setting so far and the spirits are a good part of it. I always try to avoid a monotheistic feel to my settings but this one in particular is crafted to look more like pre-Christian European settings. I'm pleased with how it has worked out.

The nature of the gods and spirits is described here. Specific spirits in the campaign region are here although this is an incomplete list (there is a spirit on average every 20 square miles or so; I fill them in as needed.) This was written before we decided to make the campaign 4E but the different types of spirits and what they do are described in a guide.

 

[Nifft]

In this version, all religion would be local. I don't typically like the way religion is handled in D&D. And while I'm rather the opposite of a Shintoist personally (and I'm really only ripping off a few concepts here, not bringing in the real-world religion which I'm not qualified to do anyway), it strikes me as an interesting way to set up a D&D world.

Mmmm. I've been thinking about this, and I don't like it.

Rather, I prefer the idea that the old, animistic Spirit religions would come into conflict with the "new", civilized Idealistic religions -- put some teeth in the alleged conflict between Druids and Clerics.

- - -

If you're interested in 3.5e, you may get some value from my re-working of the Binder mechanics for use in a Spirit-heavy campaign:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...ome-magic-variants-updated-twice-12-25-a.html

If you want to make the above stuff more Shinto, there are two things you need to add:
1/ A "Priest" feat which allows access to a small list of location-based spirits, which would vary by location; and
2/ A "Priest" feat which allows access to a small list of ancestor spirits, which would vary by ancestry.


Also, some variant Elemental summons for a campaign which dislikes alignment-based Outsiders:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/3846357-post19.html

Cheers, -- N

 

[Umbran]

In general, a decent idea. One thing of focus....

Clerics instead would be associated with a specific individual shrine, so that there would be tens of thousands of different individual religions. Some would grant powers (the Cleric class), some would not, and most would do so only inconsistently.

Locking a member of a class to a location may make some form of sense, but it is a pain it the butt for a character in a game - their power goes away if they leave town? This may be one of those times when world design has to bow a bit to the fact that you're trying to tell a story with characters who are mobile.

I think this also asks for us to consider that "religion" means in this context. What does it mean to be a "holy person" in this world? Is religion the devotion to one specific spirit, or is religion the devotion that allows you to deal well with the spirits, in general?

 

[gamerprinter]

Another way to look at it is as how a Miko Shrine Maiden operates. She serves many area shrines, not just a single one, though she serves a selection of spirit/deities and not all of them. So you could perhaps say all lawful spirits in a given area, or all neutral spirits. When the Miko Shrine Maiden appears, she needs to spend some time bonding with a given shrine, so she can commune with the spirit at hand, and obtain spells, rituals, prayers as is needed by the constituents at a given shrine.

This also means that spirits don't require a priest to worship it exclusively. One could worship at a hundred different shrines with a hundred different spirits for a hundred different needs - which requires an expected polytheism by the adherents as well as the spirits to be contacted.

The idea of one worshipper, or one priest dedicated to a single spirit is actually laughable in polytheistic cultures. We are mortal they are immortal, if you can commune with one, you can commune with them all.

One needn't be bound to a single shrine or temple. One only needs the training as a spirit-talker, and be in the vicinity of a given spirit to make contact. You don't have to be exclusive to that one spirit or one location.

This, I think works better than the supposition of being tied to a single shrine.

GP

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Locking a member of a class to a location may make some form of sense, but it is a pain it the butt for a character in a game - their power goes away if they leave town?

I'd handle that by a feat: the PC doesn't lose power when they leave, but rather gains power in their sacred spaces- druids' groves, shamanic shrines, clerical temples, etc. The bonuses may be somewhat recreated (half strength?) while traveling via a ritual/spell that consecrates/protects the area. Circle of Protection?

 

[Haltherrion]

I'd handle that by a feat: the PC doesn't lose power when they leave, but rather gains power in their sacred spaces- druids' groves, shamanic shrines, clerical temples, etc. The bonuses may be somewhat recreated (half strength?) while traveling via a ritual/spell that consecrates/protects the area. Circle of Protection?

You can also make the campaign more local. I'm using spirits in my current game. While the grants of power have a decent range, I also have the campaign in a fairly small area. Players can leave the area but the divine classes would have to ultimately attune to new spirits if they did that.

Put another way, while the restriction could be a problem in a classic campaign, if the setting has people traveling less, it isn't as much of an issue.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

The way I worked it, the Feat benefits were active as long as the Shrine was maintained. This meant that the Cleric would protect the shrine, go back and rebuild it, or build extra ones....

As Gamerprinter mentions, they could upkeep multiple shrine as part of a polytheism deal.

Then as the Cleric gains levels and reaches the 'Name Level', they can choose to build a stronghold and gain stronger influence.

It also means that enemies of the Cleric could spoil the shrine and force a confrontation.... just like the Cleric spoils shrines of evil Clerics...

The whole deal builds on the standard story lines of DnD... makes me wish I still had a copy floating around