More Classes Essentialized or more support for current classes?

[catastrophic]

Folding avengers into paladins and invokers into clerics would render classes menaingless. Each class has Role mechanics that give it a unique subrole on the battlefield.

Contrary to essentials design logic, it's not just wizards that get to do cool stuff, and avengers and invokers do cool stuff that is very different to what paladins and clerics do.

I mean you can even make an off-striker paladins, but they'll still play very differently to an avenger in that role.

It's not about character concept, it's about mechanics, and how the classes play. Character concept is abstract anyway, and as a recent wotc article points out, you can radically change the concept of a class anyway- the mechanics are what matters when designing a good class. Concept can come from any number of sources.

 

[Obergnom]

I am currently playing in a Core tomb of Horrors campaign and just started DMing an Essentials version of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil.

We seperated the two systems completely on the players side of things, and there seems to be a vastly different vibe to them. The core game seems closer to a build whatever you want game, with rather extreme character builds, the essential game is actually more like older versions of D&D, choose class and specialty, here you go!

To our group core was done after PHB2 and the first batch of powers books. We were not interested in what came after that.

Essentials on the other hand seems a bit limited, at the moment. I think more mage schools and warpriest domains would be nice, for example. I guess I just do not see much missing from core anymore. You can allways argue class X needs more support because it is at least 10% weaker than class Y, but I see no glaring holes as far as character concepts go.

So, I guess I would like them to focus on new essentials and just "patch" the core stuff via the updates in a way it gets closer to balance. I do not want the core game to go away at all, I just think there is enough of it, for now.

 

[vagabundo]

snip

So you're playing in a 4th edition D&D and a 4th edition AD&D campaign...

It seems like we have two version of the game again, but this time we can mix and match too*.

*I know there was a certain amount of compatibility across the previous versions, but Ive not heard of mixed class games. I'm sure they id happen though, because DND players are wacky...

 

[Jadeite]

Folding avengers into paladins and invokers into clerics would render classes menaingless. Each class has Role mechanics that give it a unique subrole on the battlefield.

If there can be striker fighters, controller rangers and leader druids, there is certainly place for controller clerics and striker paladins.

 

[Jack99]

what would people like to see?

Essential Warlord, Essential Swordmage and a few more feats, especially for the races, and thats about it.

 

[Reigan]

Hopefully the character builder data will indicate what's actually being played and steer the game in the right direction.

 

[catastrophic]

If there can be striker fighters, controller rangers and leader druids, there is certainly place for controller clerics and striker paladins.

Again, as I said, there are already striker paladins, and controller clerics- and controller paladins, too. This is not about restricting clases by roles.

But those classes are very distinct from the ways for instance, invokers and particularly avengers function, and anybody who can't see the distinction is simply ignorant of the way those classses are designed.

 

[AllisterH]

Silly question.

Why can't it be both?

 

[Jadeite]

Again, as I said, there are already striker paladins, and controller clerics- and controller paladins, too. This is not about restricting clases by roles.

But those classes are very distinct from the ways for instance, invokers and particularly avengers function, and anybody who can't see the distinction is simply ignorant of the way those classses are designed.

Well, the essential variants feel rather distinct, too. Or are you arguing that knights and slayers are too similar? Or scouts and hunters?

 

[JoeGKushner]

Essential Warlord, Essential Swordmage and a few more feats, especially for the races, and thats about it.

I'll be curuious to see how they do the Warlord. I can't imagine we won't have a 'Marshal' build as the Warlord is similiar to the Marshal already and we haven't seen that named used yet.