The Best Way to Dispute a DM

It's obvious the DM misread the rule. Regardless of your understanding, his implementation was obviously overpowered. Something that a re-read of the rule would clarify.

Its a catch-22, however. You either stop the game, and risk GM ire (and the possibility that if you're wrong, you're making problems), or you stay quiet and suffer the in-game consequences.

While the GM is the final arbiter of the rules, that doesn't mean he should disallow rules corrections by somebody in the know, or ruling questions. A good GM simply hears the evidence from the player, looks up a rule (or has another player do it), and then makes a final decision. That's the final part. it means AFTER considering new evidence.

When I ad-lib rules (like swimming), I'll usually ask, "does anybody KNOW the swimming rules? if not, this is how I'm going to handle it..."

When I use a rule that I think I know, I allow for the fact that I could be wrong, especially if its seldom used (like spells).

For the OP, I think that when he first declared the spell was cast and the outcome, I would have said:
"Excuse me, that doesn't seem to match the spell description. Can we pause and look it up, or is this actually a different, higher level spell?"

You're allowing for the possibility that the effect is right, but the GM misspoke the cause (allowing him to save face). You're also not outright saying he's wrong, simply that the rule should be looked up.

if he says no, then be quiet about it, until after the game.

If you calmly discuss it after the game and he is still adamant that his interpretation of a 1st level spell, you've got a different problem. Namely a GM who refuses to accept correction.

In the OP's story, the mis-interpretation had less to do with a +5 bonus. He could have rolled a 1 and still run away. The wrong ruling completely took him out of the major encounter. And worse, he was about to do it again. This leads to TPK, all due to a DM not knowing a rule correctly.

the GM may not want to revise history (I have that in my house rules that I won't retcon event outcomes). But he should certainly be man enough to read the rules, see he was wrong, and say, "whoah, I was way off. Sorry about that, I'll be more careful next time."
 

log in or register to remove this ad

It may mean you're mildly inconvenienced for one session, but that's better than everyone being inconvenienced and forced to stop playing. especially if, like me, they don't get a lot of time each week to spend playing games.

In this specific scenario, it is likely that 'mildly inconvenienced' actually means, 'unable to participate' since the character would spend a large portion of the session fleeing from the scene.

It might be better to stop everyone's game for 10 minutes than to stop one person's game for a few hours.
 


It might be better to stop everyone's game for 10 minutes than to stop one person's game for a few hours.

True - fair enough. If the GM has arbitrarily decided you have to sit out of the game for a few hours, go home. You're there to have fun with your friends, not to watch them having fun; you've no obligation to let someone tell you to sit in the corner.

This strikes me a not so much a rules error (well, it is a rules error, but that's not the issue here) but a social faux-pas. Who tells their friend they have to sit in the corner for the next 3 hours? Surely at that point one realises they're doing something wrong.
 

In this particular situation (and indeed, in any situation where it's going to kick you out of the game, like a ruling that is directly causing your PCs death), I'd kick up a stink about it on the spot. Seriously - this is a pretty straightforward situation, it's going to take someone a whole 2 minutes to read the rule. It SHOULD take the group about 5 seconds to realize that "totally screw the target for hours on end" is not the intended result of a low level utility spell.
 

Assuming 3.5, did he win the contested Charisma check?

There wasn't an opposed Charisma check. It was a single failed save and then my character was basically under the effects of a Dominate Person spell. When I brought up to him after the combat was over that I should have at least received a +5 bonus on my save, he just sort of waved it off, saying, "well, you would have just barely made the save anyway" ... as if that makes it okay to not give me the bonus.

The thing is that I know that the DM is very anti-rules lawyering ... and we do have a player in the group who will take every dispute to the Nth degree. But I don't do it often, and I think that sometimes a little reviewing of the rules can improve a DM's knowledge of the game. Especially when it is outside of the game or during a break I don't see the harm.

Everything did turn out okay - but it took the rest of the party retreating from the encounter and waiting for the spell effect to wear off. I hope that I can find a way to bring up rules disputes with him in an acceptable way before it leads to someone's character getting killed or a TPK thanks to a DM's stubborness.

Retreater
 

What I told him was "I think you're not reading that correctly. We can discuss it after the combat." Do you think I should have raised more of a stink about it and stopped the game until he got this right?

At my table, I'd be fine with you saying: "I don't think that's right and here's why-- X, Y, and Z." Keep it short.

After you've made your case, I'll stick to my ruling or revise it. This shouldn't take more than 30-60 seconds and I don't find it be particularly disruptive.

If you still think I'm wrong, we can talk about it after the session. (Or, more likely, when we hit the post-combat bookkeeping lull.)

It's easy to say, "TEH DM IS GOD! RAWR!" But, honestly, once you experience your first TPK because of a rules screw-up that could have been corrected with 10 seconds of conversation the purity of the DM IS GOD ideology wears a little thin. (At least it does for this DM.)
 

In this specific scenario, it is likely that 'mildly inconvenienced' actually means, 'unable to participate' since the character would spend a large portion of the session fleeing from the scene.

It might be better to stop everyone's game for 10 minutes than to stop one person's game for a few hours.

Agreed. As DM, I have no problem with players bringing up rules issues on the spot; it's entirely possible I simply forgot something. Moreover, in a situation where the outcome of a major battle (and possible TPK) is hanging in the balance, I think it's well worth taking the time to give the matter careful consideration.

I do expect that when I've given your argument a fair hearing and announced my ruling, that's the end of it and we move on (we can discuss it after the game if you have a major problem with it). And if someone starts quibbling with every call I make, I'll start to get annoyed. But if I'm making a serious rules blunder, I appreciate someone pointing it out.

In the situation you describe... yeah, that sucks. Stock up on protection from evil.
 
Last edited:


I think you handled it well by not raising a big stink about it.
I think every player has the right to argue their case, but if the DM renders a decision, it's not really the best thing to stop everything while you hash the argument out while everyone ELSE in the group sits and waits for you and the DM to stop going at each other. That's hogging the spotlight in probably the worst possible way.

I do think a very pertinent question would have been, "May I ask what I'm supposed to do for the next few hours in-game while my character is fleeing?" But that's taking a very different tack than saying, "Your decision is WRONG and I protest and demand you reconsider immediately!"
 

Remove ads

Top