Acrobat's Trick-Thief

[samursus]

Excuse me if this has already been discussed, but doesn't this trick essentially give the Thief a permanent Climb speed if desired?

If so, seems a bit overpowered for 1st level, as it can circumvent many of the obstacles a low-level party would have to overcome.

 

[Aegeri]

Well firstly it's only a climb speed of 4 if you start with move 6, hardly breaking the bank here (you'll move 1 square faster than someone trained in athletics with a speed of 6, big whoop). Furthermore when you run into the giant spiders, which are waiting in ambush up the wall you're not going to be feeling it was that great a decision. It also takes a minor action to change stances and in my experience, most thieves are running around in ambush trick stance (as it's that good).

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Well, tricks aren't stances... they are simply something the thief can do with his move actions.

Now, I know creatures with a climb speed don't give combat advantage when climbing, but I'm not sure that the thief would get that benefit outside of his movement phase, as he only has a climb speed for that particular movement.

Additionally, as its only for that particular movement, I would think that the thief would still need to make a skill check to not fall if he took damage.

That said, as far as I remember, there is no real guidance on how to treat something that only has a climb speed for a particular movement, and not inherently.

 

[samursus]

Doesn't the definition of "Climb Speed" mean that you don't have to make a skill check when you are hit?

I know they aren't stances, but the unspoken rule is that At-wills are exactly that; something that, even outside of combat, could be used repeatedly. That's my main concern.

"You have come to the treacherous chasm that you must answer three riddles to use the bri-"

"I use Acrobat's trick to climb down one side and up the other with a rope."

 

[Siberys]

That's what Laser Sharks are for.

In all seriousness, I'd be inclined to rule that during your turn, you don't have to make a skill check when hit (from an OA, frex). Off your turn, though, you don't have a climb speed anymore, making it dangerous to hang around on the wall if you can be attacked.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Climb speed
A creature that has a climb speed moves on vertical surfaces at that speed without making Athletics checks to climb. While climbing, the creature ignores difficult terrain and doesn’t grant combat advantage because of climbing.

Acrobat's Trick
At-Will

Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: You move up to your speed -2. During this move, you have a climb speed equal to your speed -2. You also gain a +2 power bonus to your next damage roll with a basic attack during this turn.

So yeah, you only have a climb speed during the move itself, which means that after you are done moving, all the usual effects of climbing (granting combat advantage, having to make checks, moving through difficult terrain) reapply.

So,if one used acrobat's trick to move up a wall, and then another move action that wasn't acrobat's trick to climb further, one would need to make a climb check for the second movement, and count as moving through difficult terrain.

Likewise, if attacked afterwards by a monster, one would grant combat advantage and would need a skill check to not fall if damaged.

 

[Derulbaskul]

I think it's the same principle as when a racial power, class power or item gives you a fly speed until the end of your turn: at the end of your turn you fall unless you're standing on a solid surface.

I would rule this power the same way, despite the lack of an extra sentence. I just think this is consistent with how 4E/4.5E treats special movement.

 

[Rune]

I think it's the same principle as when a racial power, class power or item gives you a fly speed until the end of your turn: at the end of your turn you fall unless you're standing on a solid surface.

I would rule this power the same way, despite the lack of an extra sentence. I just think this is consistent with how 4E/4.5E treats special movement.

I would think that an athletics check (to climb) would be in order before falling in this situation. Success would mean that the character does not fall, but cannot proceed without another move action.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

There are definite limitations, as described above.

Nonetheless, in or out of combat, it should be usable to scale a 40 foot cliff in a single go -- two 4-square move actions in a single round for a speed 6 PC -- without need for an Athletics check. That has its uses.

But I suspect the main idea of Acrobat's Trick is to let the PC run up a wall and down again to avoid OAs, traps, pits, obstacles, difficult terrain, pools of acid or lava, etc. Pump up your speed by choosing Elf, Boots of Striding and Monk MC + Fluid Motion, and you can zip all over without worrying much about who gets in your way. It's not quite teleporation, but it is at-will.

 

[keterys]

Don't fear the possible mobility with this one... embrace it. Especially since it means the character passed over one of the more combat tuned tricks to get it. Watch some Jackie Chan or Parkour to get in the mood, if needed.