Years after completely ditching the system, WotC makes their move!

NOOOOOOO!!!

Crystal keep saved me so much time. It was a great way to find what you were looking for, reference the page and book, then go look it up. Granted the equipment section "replaced" books for me but who wants to flip through all you different books looking for mundane gear, poisons and there DC's and base weapon stats. In the books it too much information too spread out.
 

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Wishing for WotC to go away is wishing for D&D to go away.

As TSR going away proved...... :erm:

what a petty move on WotC's part-- especially so long after they've moved on. This matches their M.O. of torching anything that supports past versions, though, so I'm not surprised.

I'm sure if you just saw if from their position....a smart business move....what else could they do?.....insert other excuse here......

:lol:
 

It does seem remarkably spiteful of them.

If WotC was going to stop producing any 3e material and refuse to sell pdfs or make any attempt to profit off of it, they really should have at some point lifted the restrictions on all of their out of print books, allowing the d20 SRD or a like site to put every piece of content online. Even from a strict business perspective, that would probably be a good decision because they're not going to get any return on whatever money they spend chasing down copyright violators.

Fortunately, I never really used Crystal Keep.
 

If WotC was going to stop producing any 3e material and refuse to sell pdfs or make any attempt to profit off of it, they really should have at some point lifted the restrictions on all of their out of print books, allowing the d20 SRD or a like site to put every piece of content online. Even from a strict business perspective, that would probably be a good decision because they're not going to get any return on whatever money they spend chasing down copyright violators.

I understand the frustration, but it makes business sense to me. We don't know what plans WotC has for their IP, so it makes sense for them to protect it. And if CK's content was too compete, that's a problem for WotC's ability to defend their rights if left unadressed.

Someone once made a similar assertion about old videogames...and then they started rereleasing those games in new units, like Atari games released in bunches built into controllers that attach directly to TVs, or consoles that cost about $1/game loaded on them.

Near as I can tell, WotC sent a C&D letter and CK complied. That's actually pretty civilized in this field.
 

I understand them protecting their rights.

I understand them yanking the 3.x pdf for sale when 4ed was released.

But why yank the older PDF materials that were available for sale on the web? Other companies were paying the expenses of hosting the PDFs for sale on the Web. WOTC just had to sit back and collect the checks from the hosting companies.

I ask WHY yank that older 1ed, 2ed and basic material?
 

Same reason- protecting their IP.

Was CK selling the stuff and sending WotC a check? Did they have a license? If not...that's a violation.
 

Fortunately, I never really used Crystal Keep.

See, I was thinking about what's happened, who this most affects, and that's what pisses me off the most. You and I and all the current 3E players that go on the internet to read/talk about it...we're already set. I used crystalkeep for reference tons, but mostly out of laziness from actually looking at the books/pdfs. It was convenient, but not essential. Further, we've had plenty of time to download those CK pdfs, and still can with the mirror sites that are up...until those also get taken down.

But anyone coming in new to the hobby? The books are gone, the legal pdfs are gone, CK's gone....all they have left is d20srd. No access to splat material for them. The core 3E game is wonderful, it hooked me. But I wonder how well it can hold up with just the vanilla core when 4E's plastering their new releases every single month. It's also going to make character building and optimization advice much harder to provide. I can't count the number of times I've linked people to CK to find useful items for their concept. No more. I doubt ENWorld will let us openly pass along the pdfs in the threads, since it's clearly now considered legally questionable to even view the things. Even if they had the frivolously large amounts of money to just buy a bunch of books for a few feats or items for a single character...WotC's also taken away that route. Again, we can't "advocate" piracy by telling them where they can obtain the rulebooks they want, either.

THAT is the chilling effect the cumulative efforts of WotC to bury the previous editions (next up: complete deletion of all the old web articles) that I'm worried and furious about. It's insidious, cold hearted, brilliant, and evil, and I hate them for it. It absolutely makes good business sense, I won't argue with that. They've decided they don't need our money, and after that stage, there's no point in trying to play nice for them. Even though it makes sense for them, I'm still going to rage and vent about it on teh interwebs.
 

The books aren't gone. I see them all the time in places like Half Price Books. And besides, newbies will typically stat with the newer games and work backwards- if at all- with the tutelage of veterans who have the stuff.
 

Same reason- protecting their IP.

Was CK selling the stuff and sending WotC a check? Did they have a license? If not...that's a violation.

May not matter legally, but I also want to add that I firmly believe that CK gave WotC sales. Both intentionally (posting short blurbs to try and remain within fair use) and unintentionally (very glaring errors), CK left itself as a good reference library to look stuff up quick, but at the same time was about as reliable as wikipedia. Looking on there for things was fine, but IME a fair number of DMs would want to actually see the rule you were trying to use in the book before they'd allow it. Further, if you found a lot of cool rules items from a certain book, it would logically lead you to consider buying it. Unless you never intended to buy a book in the first place, in which case CK at least didn't cost you a sale. This isn't even as tough as the "piracy helps sales" argument. With a pirated pdf you have the ENTIRE book. CK was summaries and blurbs, it in no way gave you the complete picture of what was in a particular book.

Obviously, now that WotC no longer can benefit from 3E sales, a choice of their own making, CK no longer provides this sort of "advertising." And it's now that they send C&D letters out. Strange, eh? *goes to look for a foil hat*
 

The books aren't gone. I see them all the time in places like Half Price Books. And besides, newbies will typically stat with the newer games and work backwards- if at all- with the tutelage of veterans who have the stuff.

I don't know...we still get a fair number of new posters in this forum just starting out with 3E. The game's not dying out yet. Might be getting leached at slowly by pathfinder, but at least that's in the same ballpark.
 

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