Making superhero gear make sense (mostly Marvel related)

[Jon_Dahl]

It's hard to argue against you guys - ValhallaGH and Janx - because you do make a lot of sense.

It is better to be symmetrical, it's better to have everything running as a part of the same "engine". Maybe I should've redesigned Magic in another way. However, my decision to separate magic came after a long consideration.

Other superpowers are highly varied and easy to access, but Magic seems to be the usual a can of worms, ending up in a tiresome of list of subpowers. Almost without any exception, magic in RPG's is heavy. I know players are confused with D&D magic, it takes time to study. Hell, look at Player's Handbook, how much of it spent for spells. Look at any game with Magic.

The whole idea (whether good or bad) is to make Magic very simple. Easy to access. It works like this:
Magic is an ability (ok, you can stop throwing tomatos now!) with subabilities of Spellcasting and Magic Resistance.
If you have higher Magic rank than 1, you can cast spells. There is a table on how strong your spells are at certain rank. You have to have a theme and a certain weakness in your magic. You can decide both however you want.
When you cast spells, you can cast unlimited amount spells that are considered lower than your current rank. Casting a spell of your current rank lowers your rank by one. By resting for 8 hours you get your rank(s) back.

There is no list of spells. Anything goes within your theme, you just say what kind of spell you want. Since there is no damage dice or anything like that, you can only describe what you want. But if you want, you can decide that your weakness is to have a limited spell list and then create it.

Magic Resistance is there simply to make it easier to defend against magic. Instead of inventing your own Shield and Mage Armor spells, you have a subability to simply thwart lesser Magic. With other powers you still use your dodge and mental/physical resistance, but with Magic you can rise above lesser wizards and laugh at them. Otherwise you end up dodging/resisting them with your mind or body.

Maybe I should change that, but my players have seemed to accept the system. So I feel I'd be making a huge mistake now by chancing it into something else, no matter how good and logical the reason is. You two have a good point and I feel I can't win an argument against you, but if you'd know the situation you might feel differently about it.

I'll try this system, and if it's bad, it easy to change Magic as a superpower (with power trees and all) and then promise to myself and my players that I won't take that road again.

 

[Janx]

if you're already using the system, then making radical design changes is probably not a good idea (barring a bug).

Mostly I think we're just armchair designing a system, based on your vague description. If nothing else, it shows that one designers chosen implementation is not the only way to create the same end result.

Forex, your magic resistance is a saving throw in 3e vs Reflex, Fort, or Will. No special rules needed. And it models a non-magical person having a strong force of will to resist a charm spell (because they have a high Will save).

 

[ValhallaGH]

It's hard to argue against you guys - ValhallaGH and Janx - because you do make a lot of sense.

If we didn't make sense then we wouldn't try to advocate our position. ;-)

That said, if you're already running a system then don't change it mid-campaign unless there are serious problems. Your system seems to balance out, with magic having more flexibility but more resistances to overcome than other power styles. (Good job with that part.) Philosophically I disagree with the design, but it seems to work, which is the important part.


As for magic being complicated, that's because games have to limit what it can do. Otherwise, you'll have PCs waving their hands saying, "I banish his soul to hell and claim the treasure for my horde. It's magic." Which is an excuse that should only be available to the DM and Plot, because any other use is unfun. So, they rules build in a certain amount of oversight. Your system can get away without that, since you are literally designing every spell cast as it's being cast.


Best of luck and I wish you all a lot of fun.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Suppose you're hero is fighting a villain in a big mall.

Can the hero magically find industrial strength rope in a Lady's Clothes store? Maybe ... but nonsensically. In my mind it'd make more sense for the DM to say, "Well .... rope .... you can't find enough here in the lingerie section, you might want to run out of this store and try to make it to the hardware store X distance away."

Just quoting this as an example of why I believe it all comes down to the way that the GM frames the game. In the above example I would say that the GM is putting in too much restrictive detail for a classic supers game. In the same way that the GM requiring a screwdriver to undo a box is doing so.

Supers games thrive on a much more free-form and 'say yes' approach (and I hope nobody tries to misintepret that by reductio ad absurdum).

I say this as someone who has a tendency to narrate too much detail as a GM, and as a result can paint people into a corner accidentally. It is why I'm not such a good supers/feng shui GM IMO.

Cheers

 

[Janx]

cat-5/6 network cables for the cash register PCs (now nearly standard with internet access), phone cord for the credit card reader, power cord for the PC (those are pretty tough, actually).

All make fine improvised rope for tying crooks, etc.

All found at any store the PC happens to be at.

 

[WizarDru]

All characters receive authority (and a badge of course!) of special agents of the United Arab Emirates, with a license to kill (quickly or slowly). The prince will equip all heroes with ultramodern kevlar-thights (see the first pic in OP) and give them some gear that all are within the genre. Characters will also receive an advisor who will provide the heroes what they ask.

The first mission is to investigate why a team of Indian inspectors have disappeared in the almost-finished Al Hekma Tower of Dubai, a skyscraper 61 floors...

This is a good start, with an easy entry for players and justification/explanation for them being a team, even if they don't particularly like each other or get along. Several superhero groups and comics have used this conceit and could be used for reference material. The most recent example is the relaunch of THUNDER agents, in which the heroes are given their superpowers with the understanding that those powers (or the process that gives them) will result in the heroes death in one year's time. Similar 'professional' superheroes include groups like The Power Company or The Conglomerate.


Having said that: it sounds like this group is expecting a high-casualty rate and will be regularly entering into potentially lethal situations requiring the use of deadly force. You should note that this automatically begins sliding you out of the supers genre, generally. While there are comics that operate under those conditions, they're the exception, not the rule. That's OK, but consider in your system how lethality is handled. In GURPS Supers, my players did not fear the villain Phalanx, who was an archeologist possessed by the Spear of Destiny and transformed into a laser shooting Roman centurion. They quaked at the notion of fighting a half-dozen escaped schizophrenics armed with AK-47s, however. A goon with a sniper rifle was incredibly deadly to them. Because GURPS was not designed as a Supers system. In M&M, mooks armed with AK-47s would their get their clocks cleaned.

Honestly, a lot of what you're doing sounds kind of like the old Marvel Superheroes system (which used ability scores like Good, Great, Class 1000, Godlike and so forth) In fact, the main problem (that your players want to avoid math and rules) would be abrogated by M&M if YOU MADE THEIR CHARACTERS. The majority of the rules come from creating the character. If you get their concepts and then build the characters for them, that might be far less work than developing your own homebrew (unless that's something you want to do).

 

[Jon_Dahl]

WizarDru,

I'm hoping that this wouldn't become high-casualty game but I'm just making sure that if the players want, they can play Punisher-style. Like we all know, Punisher is a controversial character in Marvel, but he still belongs (in his own humorless anti-hero way) into the Superhero-genre. I'm trying to leave options open, but I have my own vision how I'd like things to unfold. However, I'm afraid that simplistic "kill them and take their stuff"-attitude would be a big disappointment...

And you're absolutely right about your reference to Marvel Superheroes. I did use that as a basis, so I can convert stuff from that game into my own. And your idea about using M&M, creating the characters myself based on what we agree with the players, would be a good idea. But... they would still have feats and numbers on their character sheet, and it would cause lots of problems... Really. Let me give you an example from D&D 3.5 (which left me traumatized):
DM: "Ok, so now you're grappling with the werewolf."
Player: "Ok, what can I do now?"
DM: "Uhh, you know... whatever you want? There's no list of options. It's your character, it's wrestling with a werewolf. What do you want to do?"

So if there's game mechanics, like in M&M, my players will start to think everything must be solved in a metagame-level. Like what are the options for grappling in M&M or what kind special attacks can you make with a sword... What I'm trying now is this:
"Ok guys, this is free-from game. See this single sheet of A4? It has all the rules there is. So now you're grappling with a werewolf, what do you do?"

 

[ValhallaGH]

Punisher is a ... humorless anti-hero

Technically he's a villain that was so popular that they've chosen to treat him as an anti-hero. His first appearance was hunting a persecuted hero (Spider-Man).

DM: "Ok, so now you're grappling with the werewolf."
Player: "Ok, what can I do now?"
DM: "Uhh, you know... whatever you want? There's no list of options. It's your character, it's wrestling with a werewolf. What do you want to do?"

That sounds like they have issues with imagination.
If they're products of the standard middle east teaching philosophy then they have excellent memorization and recall skills, but mediocre to bad analysis and creativity skills. Which means they've been trained to memorize lists and choose the "correct answer" based upon the question, not analyze the situation and come up with a solution. It's a different philosophy than the U.S. or European education, one that relies upon precedent instead of innovation and understanding.
You may just have to bite your lip and deal with their need to choose from lists.


Best of luck to you.

 

[MichaelSomething]

That sounds like they have issues with imagination.
If they're products of the standard middle east teaching philosophy then they have excellent memorization and recall skills, but mediocre to bad analysis and creativity skills. Which means they've been trained to memorize lists and choose the "correct answer" based upon the question, not analyze the situation and come up with a solution. It's a different philosophy than the U.S. or European education, one that relies upon precedent instead of innovation and understanding.
You may just have to bite your lip and deal with their need to choose from lists.

What you said reminds me of this webcomic page so much.

 

[Relique du Madde]

Technically he's a villain that was so popular that they've chosen to treat him as an anti-hero.

Marvel tends to do that a lot.