I am beginning to appreciate some of the design decisions of 4E.

[Reynard]

How in the world does it take 2.5 hours to put together a spell list? People always come in with these stories about massive amounts of time required to set up encounters and I just don't buy it. Most of my encounters are run on the fly with absolutely no prep time.

A 14th level of cleric has on the order of 30 or so spells. Choosing all of them and writing down their level dependent details plus basic effects took about 2 hours, with another half hour getting summoned monster stats ready to go.

 

[fumetti]

A thousand HP! I love it! No major villain should ever go down quickly.

 

[Kaiyanwang]

IMHO, after a certain level, you are lucky to just REACH the villain.

The villain will be followed by a crapload of minions, summoned monsters, slaves, and cohorts.. If you are in his lair (likely) there will be traps and other bad stuff to face. Not considering clones, simulacra, and simple doubles (think about queen Amidala). And, there is the risk of him being raised shortly after.

All of these, after a long hunt by PC part after the villain messed up their lands, personal relationships, properties, and lives. And they discovered who the villain was.

I see no problem on a villain "template", even if screams metagame (I probably will not use or buy it). I just wonder if, before that, is the case of carefully consider the mechanics of story and final encounter.

 

[Runestar]

I still don't see how you can spend 150 minutes statting up an npc anyways.

Sorcs are easy, wizards aren't so difficult once I realised that only their highest lv spells matter (and simply have them start combat with a few buffs in place). I am not going to bother with spells below 6th lv for a lv20 archmage at any rate.

Or if I multiclass aggressively, I am just going to focus on a few key abilities, and not worry about tiny details (like say, a barb's trap sense).

Also, MIC makes equipping them a breeze (so long as you aren't too particular about optimizing their gear selection too much).

Honestly, you shouldn't be spending more than 20-30 minutes on each npc.

 

[Vicar In A Tutu]

Honestly, you shouldn't be spending more than 20-30 minutes on each npc.

That's about 19-29 minutes more than I like. It usually only takes me about a minute to find a suitable creature to reskin into my NPC (if the NPC needs combat stats at all, most don't). Last session, Hrothgar, an enemy barbarian, was just a reskinned Orc warlord (or warchieftain, can't remember). The most important NPCs, the big bad guys, I usually take about 5-10 minutes "finding" (for my current BBG, I've just reskinned one of the Sorceror-kings from the Dark Sun creature catalogue).

 

[Jhaelen]

Honestly, you shouldn't be spending more than 20-30 minutes on each npc.

Of course you shouldn't. But you do _if_ you are doing it by the book.

I used to spend _days_ on creating npc spellcasters in 3e! But that's not admittedly not required. I did because a) I could and b) because the results are so much better than just winging it.

Just looking through all the books that contain spells (and feats, equipment, etc.) will take more than a couple of hours. Trying to find good synergies and actually come up with a spellcaster npc that is different from the one they fought in the previous adventure in more than level will take time.

Finally, creating a stat block that contains all of the info required to actually run the npc without flipping books during play is going to take quite a while.

When I compare one of the npc spellcasters I created with one from published sources that supposedly has the same CR the difference in effectiveness is incredible. I've often seen people comment that classed monsters or npcs aren't worth their xp in 3e. That's true, but only if you don't invest a lot of thought and time into their creation. If you do, though, they're actually a lot more powerful than their CR would indicate.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I buffed hit points to insane levels like 4E did with their BBEG. I no longer base hit points on the hit die for the end of adventure BBEGs. Instead I design the BBEG with the idea in mind that he will be battling a party rather than designing him like a character.

Same here. What I've done is have 3 levels of HP for BBEG and some of their tougher Lieutenants.

If the PC's were going to be facing a couple of Vrocks on their way to fight their boss I'd have 3 levels of HP listed.

A Vrock's base HD is 9d10+63 which at max = 90+63 = 153 HP (midrange)
I'd set up a level of 1/2 that representing a weaker than average Vrock;
153 / 2 = 76.5 or 77hp
and then I set up a level of max HP (153) x2 = 306 for a REALLY tough Vrock (instead of 2 Vrocks and slap an Advanced Creature template on him for good measure)

Sometimes (Very, VERY rarely though) I'll adjust from one level to the other in the middle of a fight if it looks like the PC's are going to steamroll through an encounter. Sometimes times though I use it as a gauge for building progressively tougher encounters with the same types of opponents.
When I use it for singular tough creatures I usually team it with a template of some kind and make sure the description of the creature / NPC is enough to make them realize that this Carrion Crawler (w/ the fiendish creature template) of Unusual Size that they're facing isn't going to be a push over.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Another thing to take into consideration is that terrain/environment can make a HUGE difference in a fight.

If the PC's are entering a cavern comprised of small free floating ledges over a pool of deep water against a creature/enemy with a fantastic climb skill or Flight is going to be a different fight than fighting that same creature in a 50 x 50 ft room.

When I design fights vs. Spellcasters (especially Wizards) I'm assuming that they know how their own spells and powers work and that they're going to use them to their greatest advantage. Theyre not going to just stand their and blast.
If they have spells to shape stone, theyre going to use those spells to create hazards for the PC's (whether it be slowing them down or cover from which to fire off spells at them. Stone bunker?). If they can pass through a specific terrain without being hindered, why the hell wouldnt they fight IN that terrain
as opposed to standing out in the open?

Also? Smart NPC's (again especially Wizards) are going to have a way of getting away. Whether or not they get use it or not is the real question.

Basically NPC's should be thinking like Robert DiNiro's character Sam in RONIN:

[Sam retrieves his gun from behind some crates]
Deirdre:What exactly were you doin' back here?
Sam: Lady, I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Please note that I prefer classical monster creation. I prefer monsters and PC follow the same rules

Dude, that's not classic at all - NPC and PC using the same rules is a 3e-ism and only a 3e-ism

Play older editions, it doesn't work at all like 3e.

 

[Piratecat]

I still don't see how you can spend 150 minutes statting up an npc anyways.

I can. By the time my last campaign got up to the high teens / early 20s, I was spending a ludicrous amount of time properly statting up spellcasting foes. Game prep that took 1 - 1.5x the amount of play time wasn't uncommon.

It took a leap of faith to stop fully statting them up and start winging half the spells. I felt a little guilty even when I was pleased with the results.