Epic Counterspells

[smakko]

Is there a way to counter an epic spell other than using the Epic Spell named "Epic Counterspell"? It's a pretty high Spellcraft DC (69, dude), so until a PC can actually achieve this Spellcraft check are they unable to counter an epic spell?

I guess they could develop a custom Epic Counterspell that has a smaller bonus (the vanilla epic counterspell has a bonus of d20+40) in order to bring down the DC and add in any other mitigating factors.

However, in the description of Epic Spell Levels it states:
Epic Spell Levels

Epic spells have no fixed level. However, for purposes of Concentration checks, spell resistance, and other possible situations where spell level is important, epic spells are all treated as if they were 10th-level spells.

Given this definition, and the fact that spell level is important for counterspelling (especially when a PC has the Improved Counterspell feat) they are treated as 10th level since Epic Spells are associated with specific schools of magic.

Any thoughts?

 

[Dandu]

Go back in time and kill the other spellcaster when he was a baby.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

Go back in time and kill the other spellcaster when he was a baby.

Could you craft an Epic spell with a DC less than 69 that could allow you to do that, with enough mitigating factors?

I'm just wondering.

 

[Dandu]

You mean a spell that allows you to teleport through time?

 

[smakko]

Could you craft an Epic spell with a DC less than 69 that could allow you to do that, with enough mitigating factors?

I'm just wondering.

SUre could, the SRD version is at +30 DC (for a total +40 to a dispel check). So developing a spell with a different modifier is definitely an option. The cost and DC breaks down like this (gp to develop/days to develop/XP to develop/total Spellcraft DC):

+20 to dispel - 441K gp/9days/17,640 XP/+49 DC
+30 to dispel - 531K gp/11 days/21,240 XP/ +59 DC
+40 to dispel - 621K gp/13 days/24,840 XP/+69 DC (SRD Version)

This does not take into consideration any mitigating factors (backlash or XP burn). But a 20d6 Backlash will reduce the DCs by 20.

But this is just the "Using Dispel Magic" as a counterspell option, albeit with an Epic twist.

What about using Higher Level spell slots through Improved Spell Capactiy and Improved Coutnerspell, is that an option?

An example would be -
*Bad Guy casts Vengeful Gaze of God - DC +419!

*A 24th level Wizard then counters it with an 11th level spell slot by Heightening a Non-Epic Transmutation Spell above 9th level by virtue of the Improved Coutnerspell feat.

This is obviously an extreme example, but I just wanted to know if the definition of Epic Spells being considered 10th level for all purposes when spell level is important is kosher.

 

[milo]

A spellcraft DC of 69 is not hard to achieve once you hit epic levels. You should have 24 ranks at 21st level, if you are a wizard a +10 int modifier is not unheard of at that level. You are already at 34, there is an epic item that gives a +10 insight bonus to spellcraft, you could get a normal item that gives you a +20 competence bonus for 40k gp. I'm not sure when the skill bonus items go to epic pricing(i think it is after +20), the boots of swiftness grant a +20 to three different skills on top of everything else they do for 256k. But with the 2 items listed you are already at +64 in the skill. I could go on, but the main thing here is to find different types of bonuses(morale, profane or divine, luck) and keep on stacking until you reach the number you want.

 

[smakko]

A spellcraft DC of 69 is not hard to achieve once you hit epic levels. You should have 24 ranks at 21st level, if you are a wizard a +10 int modifier is not unheard of at that level. You are already at 34, there is an epic item that gives a +10 insight bonus to spellcraft, you could get a normal item that gives you a +20 competence bonus for 40k gp. I'm not sure when the skill bonus items go to epic pricing(i think it is after +20), the boots of swiftness grant a +20 to three different skills on top of everything else they do for 256k. But with the 2 items listed you are already at +64 in the skill. I could go on, but the main thing here is to find different types of bonuses(morale, profane or divine, luck) and keep on stacking until you reach the number you want.

For sure, its concievable to achieve the 69 DC, but in lieu of actually developing an Epic Spell (and spending time, money and XP), and buying items (provided they are available to the PCs), is the Imp SC/Heighten/Imp CS option even viable?