D&D 4E [4E Players, mainly] Ever thought of defecting to Pathfinder?

[Dice4Hire]

That is my take on Paizo's 3.75 also. They had a chance to change things a lot, but all they really did was make things more complicated. Yes, it is nice having character classes that gain something new every level, and backwards compatibility is something to keep in mind, but they could have gone so much further. There have been a lot of really innovative d20 games out there. But, ahh well. Too late now for Paizo to do this with Pathfinder. .

 

[Pour]

I'll never go back to 3.xx mechanics, though I do purchase certain PDFs from Paizo and respect their creative team very much. The only way they could possibly tempt me is to announce Pathfinder 2e with considerable system changes.

 

[Votan]

I actually did the 4E to Pathfinder switch. The adventure paths were the key for me -- they are fun excursions and eliminated enough of the issues of game preparation that I was willing to give it a try. It has worked out quite well, so far.

 

[Serphet]

Started 4e when the pdfs leaked before the books were actually out. Loved it all! I Was disgruntled with 'problem players' in my 3.x games; this was a breath of fresh air.

A part of me was put off by the FR books, but I took it in stride ("DDI will fill in the gaps"). I learned a lot while playing in 4E, the game was a solid system. Then the DDI layoffs happened, i was a bit more put off but " happens". The final straw for me were the Eberron Campaign books. Looking at what was before, and what I had...

Around this time pathfinder was coming out of beta, I grabbed a torrent to catch up on everything... Reading the AP's and the campaign setting... WOW!

Evaluating it all now, 4E taught me so much about running/playing-in an enjoyable game. Keep things rolling, don't get caught up in details, be agile in handling hiccups.

As I was (and still am) going back over the 3.5 rules and understanding the full changes in PFRPG, I began (have begun) to realize that most of my issues with the system were misunderstandings and using to many extra books that my players knew better than I.

In the end I don't regret my 4E games/purchases. The 4e DMG is actually amazing. But many of the lessons learned can be carried into pathfinder (or any RPG). In fact the PFRPG monster creation rules are clearly pulled as a 'why didn't we do this before' reflection of 4e monsters. I'm loving pathfinder now, and I wouldn't be enjoying it so much if 4E hadn't changed me so much.

 

[TarionzCousin]

I'm still waiting for all the Paizo employees and the WotC employees to don their armor and elf ears, gather up their LARP weapons, and sally forth to glorious war against each other in and around the Greater Seattle area.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I'm still waiting for all the Paizo employees and the WotC employees to don their armor and elf ears, gather up their LARP weapons, and sally forth to glorious war against each other in and around the Greater Seattle area.

I would pay to watch that; it's probably better entertainment than the upcoming movie will be.

 

[Glade Riven]

I kinda want to chime in on the DMing thing...

I've played and DMed both, and my most popular DMing was SAGA (the Star Wars hybrid of 3.5 and 4e). When the group I was with showed a greater interest in Pathfinder, I decided to take a number of the lessons I've learned from prepping for 4e and have applied them to Pathfinder.

I use minions. I only stat what I know I'm going to need. I don't build bad guys like characters unless it's worth it (such as the BBEG). I don't spend all freakin' day mapping out NPCs unless the NPC is really important. Mostly I'll check out a chart or two and not spend more than 5 minutes on it, which is even easier with the charts in the Game Master's Guide (the PDF is worth the $10; for the Hardcover, milage may vary). And I run my battles the same way as with 4e and Saga - couple of small, short encounters and a big one that uses a lot of terrain. I encourage players to try crazy things and roll dice checks.

Cheating? Maybe. 'course, it helps that the Pathfinder Bestiaries have simplified things a little (except templates - those can still be a mess, especially with spellcasters) compared to 3.5.

Of course, the important thing is to play what you like, and to be honest - while I'm more familiar with Pathfinder, I still like them both.

 

[Serphet]

I encourage players to try crazy things and roll dice checks.

Is this done similar to the idea of 'stunts' in Exalted?

 

[Glade Riven]

Having never played Exalted...maybe? In SAGA it was things like leaping the distance between two spaceship across a void or Jedi Mind Tricking a rancor to knock itself out. Once the rolls ended up with a round where a player and a sith ended up in a stalemate on the force lightning (they both force lightninged and ended up locking the bolts between each other's hands al la Forced Unleashed). There was one time in Pathfinder where an ogre, late to the fight as he was taking a dump behind a tree, went from bounty-hunting the party to being their personal valet through some good roleplaying and a couple of skill checks (even after he K.O.ed the lawful-stupid paladin). Or wrestling a sewer drake when you're a cleric that really has no business wrestling a sewer drake (a CMB role + flanking bonus).

Work the skills, use the terrain, etc. - basically encouraging the players to be creative when finding ways to thwart me. Dangerous, I know. I also have a tendency to use a sliding scale rather than a straight beat-this-number dice check on skill roles. The numbers still mean something, but if fairly unskill and get a 20, then it's an idiot savant moment; if skilled but rolled a 5 (before modifiers), you might get the job done but it won't be pretty. It can easily turn into blending a skill challenge in with the combat. It makes for some rather interesting cinematic moments and a few near death experiances.

 

[bbjore]

Like most DMs who moved to 4E, seeing how easy my life is now, I don't think I could ever go back. I think Pathfinder is a big improvement over 3.5, but I just don't want the headache of DMing that system. That being said, I wish wizards could just hire all the people who write adventures for Pathfinder. That's what would really make me happy.