Does the term "a creature" include yourself?

[Skottie]

If you can force a creature to make an attack against a creature, can this attack be against itself? The power in question is Decree of Khirad.

I've searched the DDI Compendium, but I couldn't find an entry on the rules of targeting a power there.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Yes. All PCs are creatures. This will generally be a bad thing, because it means that you and your allies can both accidentally target you with harmful bursts and blasts, but may occasionally be a good thing.

 

[Mengu]

Yes, when a target makes an attack against a creature, the creature can be the target itself.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yes, when a target makes an attack against a creature, the creature can be the target itself.

Assuming the power it is using to make that attack allows the creature to be the target of its own power, not all powers do.

 

[moxcamel]

The rules as written seem to allow this, but I'm not so sure I'd allow it as DM. I'll have to think about it some more, maybe I'll change my mind, but my initial reaction is that Decree of Khirad is a charm, and charms haven't historically allowed you to injure the creature directly through its own actions. I'm thinking of the old Charm Person/Monster and Command spells specifically. You could force a creature to attack one of its buddies, but you couldn't make it commit suicide, for example. I know this line of thinking is based on completely different editions, but I think forcing a creature to attack itself violates the spirit of the charm. But certainly I'll concede that the RaW allow it.

 

[Squire James]

It's not terribly unbalancing in 4e, since the enemy is limited to at-will attacks, so I'd probably allow it if the enemy is not bloodied (if bloodied it would be suicidal and he would not do it). The enemy is not helpless, and he still has to roll to hit.

 

[Mengu]

A number of encounters powers become less useful in encounters where monsters are spread out or when there are few creatures on the table. I wouldn't want to "nerf" a player's encounter power selection by not allowing a creature to attack themselves. Powers like Drunken Monkey become very difficult to use in an environment where a creature is not allowed to attack itself. Therefore, I would not recommend house ruling to disallow creatures to attack themselves.

Assuming the power it is using to make that attack allows the creature to be the target of its own power, not all powers do.

Can you give an example? I understand a power that targets an "enemy" would not be able to target yourself (like a wizard could not target himself with Winged Horde). But any attack that targets a "creature" should be able to target yourself, no?

 

[moxcamel]

Powers like Drunken Monkey become very difficult to use in an environment where a creature is not allowed to attack itself. Therefore, I would not recommend house ruling to disallow creatures to attack themselves.

Ahhh but...

The mechanics of Drunken Monkey say that the target makes an a basic attack "against one enemy of your choice," but look at the flavor text:

...you cause one of your foes to attack its companion.

I know flavor text isn't considered binding, but still we can how the power was intended to be used.

Having said that, I could actually envision this power (which is not a charm btw) causing an enemy to accidentally attack himself. You see this kind of thing in Kung Fu movies all the time.

In any case, I'm all about setting the rules aside if the rules are interfering with the fun. And Drunken Monkey is a fun power, I personally wouldn't dream of denying its use against the target.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Can you give an example? I understand a power that targets an "enemy" would not be able to target yourself (like a wizard could not target himself with Winged Horde). But any attack that targets a "creature" should be able to target yourself, no?

I think you've already covered it, anything that is enemy specific. You cannot be your own enemy. You could use those on your allies. In any case few at-will basic attack powers have those kinds of restrictions, though there undoubtedly are a few out there. I'd look at artillery or controllers.

 

[Pbartender]

The wizard power Charm of Misplaced Wrath is another good example...

Effect: The target makes a basic attack against a creature of your choice as a free action. The basic attack gains a +2 power bonus to the damage roll.​

This opens a lot of options. I doesn't specify an ally of the target, so the target could feasibly target himself or allies of the Wizard using the power (Jerk!). It doesn't specify a melee basic attack or an attack against adjacent creatures, so you can use a ranged basic attack, if the target has one.

Granted, when you look at the stats for the actual basic attack that the target will be using to attack with, it will normally specify the targets you can hit. For example:

Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +6 vs. AC​