Does the term "a creature" include yourself?

[Samir]

Thanks for the question! In the Rules Compendium on page 95 it covers what can be targeted. There it states "If a power directly affects one or more creature other than the user, its description has a "target" entry that specifies whom and what it can affect." This means that if it has a target entry it can't target the caster.

Thank you and have fun!

The CS rep seems to be misreading the quote. All that quote really says is if a power can only target the caster, it won't have a Target: entry, because it will be range Personal.

Just because a power can target other creatures doesn't mean it can't target yourself. For example: many burst powers target "You and each ally in burst". Per that particular CS response, you still can't target yourself with those powers, because they have a Target line.

If you accept that "You and each ally in burst" indeed targets yourself and each ally within the burst, then it follows that "one creature" can target yourself, because you are a creature and you are within your own reach. That's why a Paladin can use Lay on Hands to heal himself.

 

[DracoSuave]

Area spells don´t state a target directly (IIRC). They usually have burst xxx. Target each creature in the burst.

Close bursts actually do exclude the caster if not otherwise stated.

Area powers actually do state targets directly. There's nothing less direct about how they describe a target than any other power in the game.

"Target: Each creature in burst" is direct.

Any game rule that involves targetting works the same for area attacks as they do for ranged, or for melee.

Look at the monk's flurry of blows powers... each is a Melee 1, but at level 21:
"Level 21: Each enemy adjacent to you" becomes the target. That works no differently for the purposes of targeting than does Close bursts, or anything else.

Again, there is only ONE single exception to that, and that is Close bursts cannot target yourself. Everything else, for the purpose of targeting, works exactly the same.

 

[Arlough]

The CS rep seems to be misreading the quote. All that quote really says is if a power can only target the caster, it won't have a Target: entry, because it will be range Personal.

Just because a power can target other creatures doesn't mean it can't target yourself. For example: many burst powers target "You and each ally in burst". Per that particular CS response, you still can't target yourself with those powers, because they have a Target line.

If you accept that "You and each ally in burst" indeed targets yourself and each ally within the burst, then it follows that "one creature" can target yourself, because you are a creature and you are within your own reach. That's why a Paladin can use Lay on Hands to heal himself.

Well, that could fall under specific beats general. The power specifically says "You" so you are now a valid target.

Can anyone here find (and quote verbatim) the rule in question on PG 95 of the compendium? Or would that violate the IP rule?

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, that could fall under specific beats general. The power specifically says "You" so you are now a valid target.

Can anyone here find (and quote verbatim) the rule in question on PG 95 of the compendium? Or would that violate the IP rule?

Essentials version:

CHOOSING TARGETS

The most common targets are creatures, enemies, and allies. When you use a power, keep in mind that "creature" means a creature of any sort, whether that creature is an enemy or ally of your character. "Enemy" means a foe of your character, and "ally" refers to your character's companions in an encounter.

PHB:

“Creature” or “creatures” means allies and
enemies both, as well as you.

There is a lack of text suggesting that 'creature' does not include you, text that suggests it does, and nothing in the 'Essentials changes' makes mention of a change in how 'creature' works.

That's kinda important to, that'd be a big change; just ask a paladin.

 

[666Sinner666]

Considering a large portion of 4e's regular gaming is LFR, where the DM has no such liberty, the actual rules are pretty relevant. Particularly when there is now a whole class-build whose whole shtick is based around this concept... even in home games you eliminate a lot of tactical options if you don't allow the rules to work as they were written. Solos, as you pointed out, being a prime example.

Also that is a ridiculous AC if you actually had to kill the Kraken... needing a 17+? So anywhere from a 23 to a level 25 creature. Even with a Killswitch variant in my party I wouldn't want to try that.

Yes, we had to kill the Kraken and I was playing a straight Killswitch.

 

[spinmd]

Essentials version:

CHOOSING TARGETS

The most common targets are creatures, enemies, and allies. When you use a power, keep in mind that "creature" means a creature of any sort, whether that creature is an enemy or ally of your character. "Enemy" means a foe of your character, and "ally" refers to your character's companions in an encounter.

Also, from the RC on page 20

Key Terms
Creature: A being in the game world. Both adventurers and monsters are creatures.