Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG from Goodman Games

[fireinthedust]

Initially, I don't like splitting the market further. GG should publish some additional Pathfinder modules, if the 4e stuff isn't working out for them. Not that the DCCrpg isn't a good idea (it looks neat) but as a business model I think they shouldn't abandon the idea of a common language rules set.


Reading the design notes, however, I think GG is going to make a good game. It looks neat, and I think the design notes so far are doing a good job of catching the original flavour of the pulp novels (which I just made a significant dent into myself recently).


I'm going to buy it, sure, as a piece of great design work. If I can find some players interested, I'll use it for sure. My group has bought into several systems for me, so I need to use PF for a while (which I like, imho), but I'll be buying the core DCCrpg book for myself. I may also get modules based on it, which would be fun; if the game is good, of course.


The additional dice should be done so other dice makers can produce them, or come in some kind of GG special kit. Or the rules should be made so I don't *need* to have them if I don't have access to a FLGS that sells them.


That said: most of it I like, but the idea of demons as a mechanic for player spellcasters gives the wrong impression for the game. I see its place in the genre, but how can I tell friends of mine (who I'm proud of having, as they're good people) who happen to be on the conservative religious side, that the game isn't what the wackos say it is, when this is part of it?
Options for non-demon entities will be an important part of this process, minimum.

Priests: The dagger-waving priests mentioned above are just sorcerers, eh? Not clerics. Read the books: all wizards call on outsiders for help, some of them are "priests". Mitra aided Conan in that story (the pheonix on the sword, I think it was), and he had his followers; contrasted to Set and the Stygians, or Elric and Arioch. Cleric-style characters are in there, but they aren't representative of all "priests".

I'd argue that, while Cthulhu is popular, the CoC game does make use of the Elder gods as opposed to the Old Ones, right? ie: strange entities of law vs. the chaotic Old Ones, entities helpful to PCs.


The game likely won't have 3e sorcerers, then. They're not really part of Appendix N. Maybe I can call my Wizard a "sorcerer supreme", finally!

 

[fireinthedust]

I tried posting on their forum, but it didn't go up 24 hrs after I did so (approximately; well, it's not up yet from last night). Maybe it was a crappy post, I dunno.


Anyhoo: How the heck are they going to do the following things:

1) Alignment: Chaos vs. Law, or Good vs. Evil, or neither? That would be something. Why align, right?

2) Religion: between demonic patrons and actual gods, how will this work out?

3) Battle Maps: So what, we're not doing any kind of grids? what about movement? How is not having squares on a map going to do anything but cause arguments and hurt feelings without a clear set of guidelines?

4) Feats and Skills: without these, somehow DCCrpg is going to get caught up in the class powers issue: how only thieves and rangers could use stealth, only thieves and bards could climb walls, etc. And no one could tie a rope to save their lives.

Feats allow customization.

5) Customization and heroes: Randomness is great, but I don't see how it's ANR (appendix N revival) as much as OSR (old school revival). The novels in Appendix N don't have random characters. They have specific characters: Conan, Elric, Fafhred and Mouse. They're heroes, not randomly generated misfits.

6) Compatibility: will I be able to use the mountain of books I have with this, in any way? It says d20 system, at least nominally.

I like a lot of the ideas thrown about, and would LOVE to playtest this. If it works out to be a good system, that's great.

It'll bug me until I see it, for sure.


Hey Goodman: you coming to Toronto?

 

[Harley Stroh]

I tried posting on their forum, but it didn't go up 24 hrs after I did so (approximately; well, it's not up yet from last night). Maybe it was a crappy post, I dunno.

Fire, re: your post. We've had a ton of spam over on the GG forums, so new posters need to have their first couple posts approved. It should be fixed now.

If it helps any, there was a post from Erol Otus awaiting approval, too.

//H

 

[Harley Stroh]

That said: most of it I like, but the idea of demons as a mechanic for player spellcasters gives the wrong impression for the game. I see its place in the genre, but how can I tell friends of mine (who I'm proud of having, as they're good people) who happen to be on the conservative religious side, that the game isn't what the wackos say it is, when this is part of it?

Options for non-demon entities will be an important part of this process, minimum.

Absolutely. All casters can choose a patron, but that patron doesn't need to be sinister by any means.

//H

 

[darjr]

Oh, just noticed the DunDraCon play reports and the FreeRPG day quickstart!

Thanks for supporting FreeRPGDay!

 

[Harley Stroh]

Oh, just noticed the DunDraCon play reports and the FreeRPG day quickstart!

Thanks for supporting FreeRPGDay!

Happy to! After all, Joseph was the inspiration behind FreeRPGDay.

The plan is to time the beta with the release of a free 0-level adventure. Hopefully folks will take it for a spin, kick the tires and tell us what we got right and where we went wrong.

There are a couple good reports on the GenghisCon playtests as well. I'll dig up some links.

//H

 

[darjr]

I did not know that about freeRPG day. Very cool.

 

[fireinthedust]

Oh good! Okay, I was wondering. I saw it just before reading this.

Anyway, it looks like a good game in the making. I'm very interested in seeing it, and the systems as they come out. GG modules I've seen are just pure win, so seeing what Goodman and company do with actual RPG design is going to be a treat.

I think, though, a new term needs to be used for this game: ANR, or Appendix N Revival, getting back to the original works on the N list; as opposed to OSR (Old School Revival), which is more a revival of the game made by Gygax and Arneson, as played by grognards back in 1974, ie: appealing to that nostalgia of gameplay and rules use, rather than using the developments upon Gygax and Arneson's ideas to get to the essence of their original source material; which is, I believe, your intent.


I don't mind the patrons bit per se. In fact, I don't know that there should be non-iffy ones on there. Even if they're not demons, having alien entities with different ideals than humans or angels would be a good touch. Cost should be inconvenient and brutal, which is the heart of the best of what I've read off that list.

Elementals were different than chaos lords in Elric, right? If I were to do the patrons, I'd have them as the only non-fiend option, come to think of it. They're neutral, and alien. *Maybe* some lords of law analog, like one of those uber intelligent beings from Star Trek OS? But Elementals should do it.
Clerics can have all the good guy patrons (angels, etc.). And they really should have it easy, to some extent.

Magic Items: thinking about it, wouldn't it be fun if the entire list was non-generic items? Like, there's only one of each of the items at the back of the book, and they're somewhere in the game world. Each of them has a name, a story, and maybe a personality. Stormbringer comes to mind (and you should have a Stormbringer in the book, for sure). I mean, there can be a "class" of similar items, like Runeswords, but each would have its own suite of abilities and issues, and an individual name.
Anyway, that would be a fun goldmine to go over for any system. Usable items could be generic (potions, scrolls, etc.), but not items that have permanent effects: rings, wands, staves, cloaks, swords, daggers, platemail, etc. They could fit in with Artifacts, really, and if they're unique items they'd fit the same purpose as artifacts. Every warrior would always look for a magic sword, because there's only so many of them.

You could do the generic bonus items with Mithril and Adamantine, and other special materials that are just Masterwork. That's not enough to break the specialness of the unique magic items. Even things like cloaks of invisibility could be made with "spider silk of sapho"; while generic, and technically filling the same niche as a magic item, they're not anything other than a special material. Everyone in the Fellowship got cloaks of elven kind, basically, right? But Sting was the magic sword, and Orcrist, and Anduril: unique items.
Even a special form of craftsmanship, like Dwarven-made weapons, rather than "masterwork" (though I guess the elves and dwarves and mastersmiths all do the same thing. Meh, could be some kind of difference).

 

[MichaelSomething]

I'm tempted to preemptively head off any edition squabbling. Everyone, please don't.

I hope no one interprets my bad, bad desires as any form of contempt for the game. I generally am intrigued by it and expect very good things.

 

[goodmangames]

I'm glad to see the interest in DCC RPG. I'm sure you all know that this game has been in "stealth playtest mode" for quite a while, with the pool of playtesters being revealed on a need-to-know basis . Several of us have been running games at cons, game stores, and game days (and, of course, home!) for over a year -- most recently, Harley was at GenghisCon in Colorado, I was at DunDraCon in San Francisco, Tavis ran a game in New York, Dieter is running games in Ohio, and some other "not yet named parties" are running games as well. There will be a large-scale public playtest slated to coincide with Free RPG Day this year. In the meantime, there are a couple venues for those of you who want to check out the game in person:

If you're in Chicago, I'll be running a playtest at Games Plus on the evening of Thursday, March 24. Shoot me an email/PM if you're interested.

And if you're going to GaryCon, Harley and I will both be running games there. We have several official slots listed - you can sign up at the GaryCon site. And of course we'll both be hanging around with nothing to do in between games ...there will probably be some pickup games as well.

After GaryCon, there are additional playtests planned, which we'll update you on at a future time.

Looking forward to some fun games!