Heroes of Shadow Table of Contents

[Walking Dad]

I know about the Binder from DDXP. It's a PHB Warlock, spends all its time casting spells at range.

??? I have to trust you on this, but the reason you gave is not compelling. Having mostly ranged powers says nothing about similar to the PH. Or is the warpriest like the PH str cleric because he uses mostly melee powers?

As for Wizard options, read harder:

Eleven pages of nothing but Wizard powers, before it even gets to the Mage schools!

I read it. and I commented it farther above:

...

Yes, for both. With school riders only for Mages.

With school riders I meant the mage school bonuses. The new spells have them keyed to keywords instead of a special section for using it with certain implements, like 'Staffstrike Corrosion' had.

I'm not going to argue with you any more on the book type, but you're being dumb if you treat this as an Essentials component just because of the name.

I would appreciate if you would not call me dumb because we have different opinions.

Edit: Just saw this.


...what? So because they aren't adding stuff exclusive to a PHB class, suddenly that class isn't supported?

You do know that your powers are interchangeable right?

Did we all suddenly forget how our own game's rules work here? What is going on?

No, but by you above logic, heroes of the Fallen Lands wasn't an essentials component either, because it contained powers usable for certain PH 1/2 classes.

Are you really not getting my argument? The rule book is most likely primary for essentials but has stuff compatible with PH1&2 classes.

It does not present exclusive options for PH1-3 as far as we know. Can we agree on this.

 

[Nullzone]

No, I'm not getting your argument, because even Essentials gives material to the PHB1-3 classes. PHB classes grow as they level by the gain of new powers and some minor scaling of existing powers. There's nothing exclusive in this game once you get into the actual decision making bits; if it says Cleric on it, any Cleric can take it. Every new power added is lending support to the class to which it is assigned.

By contrast, the Essentials builds need specific additions because they use the "baked in" class features as a means to remain competitive because they are designed with a smaller array of powers to be used (thus lending to their simplicity); so new flavoring for them means you need to outline their class feature growth to support the new flavor design.

 

[Walking Dad]

Last try:

Domain Features, Mage School bonuses, warlock powers that require a specific pact weapon -> exclusive material for essentials

Implement Masteries, non-domain at-will cleric attack powers -> exclusive to pre-essentials.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It does not present exclusive options for PH1-3 as far as we know. Can we agree on this.

You mean options that ONLY PH1-3 characters can take that are somehow forbidden to Essentials characters?

Why would they want to present options like that?

Generally speaking, the more characters that can gain an option, the more broadly useful (and thus valuable, in terms of page count, design decisions, and book sales) it is.

If I'm WotC, I'm not going to want to provide a book with options ONLY for beastmaster rangers and wand wizards.

I'm going to want to provide a book that potentially has options for ANY character. ALL characters, even. That way, the dude playing the Ardent and the lady playing the Barbarian all get something that provokes them to buy the book.

I think that's part of why we're not seeing the Power Splats at this point. Martial Power 3 is a non-starter for anyone not playing a martial character. Its options are too exclusive.

Instead, we're getting Heroes of Shadow, which is hitting a broader base. Perhaps not as broad as it might be (Shamans? Runepriests? Beastmaster rangers!?!?!), but pretty broad nonetheless.

That is a good thing.

A book whose rules I can use (whatever game or character I happen to be playing) is a very good thing.

Edit: The place for the narrower, more limited options, are the magazines. If you really want more cleric at-wills or implement masteries, I'm sure they'd print a good article with that stuff in it. Personally, there seem to be plenty to me, but everyone plays this game differently.

 

[Nullzone]

Last try:

Domain Features, Mage School bonuses, warlock powers that require a specific pact weapon -> exclusive material for essentials

Implement Masteries, non-domain at-will cleric attack powers -> exclusive to pre-essentials.

All you're doing is pointing out material that already exists; how does that make a case for continuing to stovepipe options in such a limiting way?

 

[Walking Dad]

All you're doing is pointing out material that already exists; how does that make a case for continuing to stovepipe options in such a limiting way?

Yes, why they are continuing to print new Domains and Mage Schools

----

Ok, I give up...

You are right

- a PH wizard and an Essential Mage will be able use the same amount of material in the book.

- It has nothing to do with essentials, despite the title and the presented classes.

- I hate essentials despite playing mostly essential classes.

- I stovepipe options because I use existing material as examples.


So, is this all right? You decide, I stop posting in this thread. Good gaming everyone.

 

[renau1g]

If they don't provide some great necrotic keyword type support in the feats in this book I will face palm so hard.

I would expect the necro-builds of the mage to have the same as the pyromancers ability to bypass fire resistance.

 

[twilsemail]

I would expect the necro-builds of the mage to have the same as the pyromancers ability to bypass fire resistance.

I'm certainly hoping so. Necrotic is even more resisted than Fire damage. This is going to be another build with a specific damage type and they'd be gimped going up against zombies. I think a necromancer should be able to handle those shambling monstrosities pretty well, neh?

 

[Nullzone]

Not trying to be right, just frustrated with people taking the same broken-record, hard-lined stance as soon as the word Essentials comes anywhere around...particularly in a case where it isn't justified because the material in question clearly supports a lot more than Essentials.

Sorry we can't come to a better understanding. Good gaming to you as well.

 

[Ryujin]

I'm certainly hoping so. Necrotic is even more resisted than Fire damage. This is going to be another build with a specific damage type and they'd be gimped going up against zombies. I think a necromancer should be able to handle those shambling monstrosities pretty well, neh?

Perhaps Necros will get a mechanic to ignore a certain amount of Necrotic resistance? That would keep them effective against undead. Hell, they might even get some Radiant abilities. We won't know until we see them.