A bit tired of people knocking videogames...

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Doesn't match my recollection at all.

I mean, that doesn't match my position nor that of the guys in my group. None of us has revised our position, either.

And I don't recall seeing anyone saying they hated WoW and game X was so WoW-like that they hated game X, for instance.
 

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It seems to me like people can't come up with much of an argument, so they toss the videogame insult out there. Im not sure why people feel the need to intrude on other games instead of playing their own. Ya know?
 

Doesn't match my recollection at all.

I mean, that doesn't match my position nor that of the guys in my group. None of us has revised our position, either.

And I don't recall seeing anyone saying they hated WoW and game X was so WoW-like that they hated game X, for instance.

"What is said" and "what is meant" are two different things.

I've yet to see "this is too video gamey" used towards a tabletop game that meant anything other then "Vague statement of disapproval!"
 


But then you aren't using your Use Rope skill!
Once upon a time, what a player knew was no less important than what was on the character sheet.

Shocking, I know.

In any case, Use Rope was introduced as a non-weapon proficiency in 1e AD&D about twenty-five years ago; yes, Virginia, D&D had rules for doing stuff long before 3e was a wiggle in Monte Cook's epididymis.
 

I think the most significant is that no computer game yet programmed can match the flexibility of gamers. Tabletop games which feel like they limit that inherent flexibility too much seem to be the one's most often hit with the 'computer game' tag; what is 'too much' is a subjective experience, and thus disagreements arise over whether or not a that tag is fair or not, reasonable or not.

The disagreement is much more basic than that. I disagree that flexibility is a boundless goal. Flexibility is not worthwhile beyond those bounds at which the game will reasonably run. I'll elaborate further down.

If I can't say, "Right, I'm not interested in searching this hole for the Boggle of Zoon any longer. Let's go enslave some orcs and conquer the Duchy of Fiffifth instead," then the game is going to feel too limited to me.

And here we have it. As a player, it's occasionally nice to have the illusion of freedom to do whatever you want with the game world. That illusion, of course, is shattered by the reality that you're playing a game with other people. If you were playing by yourself in your own head with nothing but your imagination, enslaving orcs and conquering duchies would be no big deal. But you're not. You're playing with a bunch of other people, and the guy in charge of the world usually has his own idea of how the game will progress.

As a DM, I am under no obligation to allow you to enslave some orcs. While I may have the capacity to let you do that (even by simply saying "Okay, you enslave some orcs."), I probably won't. Functionally, this is no different than if your computer game didn't have the ability to allow you to enslave some orcs.

As the DM, I outline expectations of my players - among which is included the understanding that you will participate in the story that has been prepared. Some DMs run things "sandbox" style, but you're still playing in their sandbox. In this manner, flexibility - the sort of flexibility you seek - can be damaging to the game.

You clearly don't like "artificial" boundaries in your games. I'm sure the invisible wall trope of video games infuriates you. Believe it or not, though, those same invisible walls exist in tabletop gaming. You just don't get the visceral experience of physically bumping into one. Instead, depending on the skill and patience of your DM, you will wind up being subtly steered back to the plot, or tolerated as the DM scrambles to improvise, or yelled at for deliberately jumping the rails.

Flexibility is nice. It's great to have different solutions to the problem of retrieving the Boggle of Zoon. It encourages creative thinking. There's plenty of room for this sort of creative thinking in most video games. Many encourage it. But if your idea of flexibility is having the freedom to say "My character decides to retire from adventuring life and start a vegetable stand in the local market," I doubt you're going to find your average tabletop gaming group any more accommodating than a video game.
 




So I don't get the problem.
There are people who use "like a videogame" as a non-specific slur, or to imply that people who play the game are immature, have short attention spans, are more interested in shiny bells and whistles and other visual and sound effects rather than problem-solving and role-playing, or that the game has been "dumbed down" or otherwise made into a pale imitation of the real thing its former self.

There are (IMO) somewhat more valid complaints in which aspects of the game may appear similar to aspects of certain video games (even if they are not technically alike, the fact that they may remind one of a video game is sufficient). Here, the phrase is often used imprecisely since that aspect (i) need not be common to all video games, (ii) need not be unique to video games, or even (iii) may not even have originated with video games in the first place. Such complaints may include: 4E's defender/leader/striker/controller roles being similar to tank/dps/healer/crowd control roles in certain video games; 4E's encounter powers being similar to powers with cooldowns in certain video games; and 4E's healing surges being similar to rapid health resoration mechanisms in certain video games.

Perhaps the most significant (again, IMO) way in which a tabletop game can be "like a videogame" (apart from inflexibility, which is more a DM issue than a rules issue) is, as Dannager mentioned, gamist (or at least, non-simulationist) elements that can strain suspension of disbelief and derail immersion if not handled properly. However, even this is not a problem if you don't consider it to be a problem. :p
 

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