D&D 4E What do you think of the delve format used in 4E adventures?

[Zinovia]

The WOTC poll on the same subject is closed.

The poll attached to the article isn't closed; I just voted on it now. That would be a fairly short time to run a poll. I hadn't read the WotC forums yet to see if there was a different poll there.

I like the delve format in the Dungeon Delves book, and for big set piece battles. I dislike it for everything else. It wastes too much space, causes too much focus on the combats, and reprints sections of boring dungeon tile maps. The worst offense by far is that adventures using the delve format tend to split the area descriptions into two, or even three places. The main adventure text has some details, the "Overview of the Area" section may have additional info, and the encounter "Features of the Area" has yet more. It is all too easy to miss describing some important detail because you are looking at the adventure overview and not the rest.

DM: You round the corner to see an open archway leading into a large room with a raised dais at the back. On the dais is a throne flanked by 2 statues. An ornate magic circle glows on the floor in the center of the room. A robed figure is seated in the throne (details apparent from the map or main adventure section).

Rogue: Is there a chandelier? How high is the ceiling?

DM: (page flips to General Features of the Wizard's Tomb where the ceiling height for all rooms is indicated.) The ceiling is 15 feet high. (page flips to the encounter delve layout and Features of the Area where the chandelier is described as a terrain feature) There is a large iron chandelier tied off by a rope in the northeast corner. Also there are tapestries on the far wal behind the throne.

Wizard: What are the statues of?

DM: Umm.... (the adventure says only that the statues are difficult terrain, but not what they are statues of) ...they are statues of a man and a woman, each wearing wizard robes. The man holds a staff, the woman holds a crystal orb.

Depending on the questions asked by the group, the answer could be anywhere, or nowhere. It is very frustrating looking for an answer when you don't even know where to look or if it will be there at all. Contrast this with 1E adventures where all the details were in the text block for the area, with perhaps a few general features in an overview section. If the answer wasn't there, you knew you could make something up without fear of finding contradictory info later in the module. The current delve format makes it far too easy to miss details and requires a lot more page flipping.

What's the throne made of? Are there hidden compartments in it? What are the tapestries worth? What's in the box? Don't tell me it's a level 4 parcel, because then I have to swap books to go figure that out. Tell me "The chest contains a ruby worth 150 gp, 32gp and a level 5-7 magic item suitable for a spellcaster". I am using a premade adventure to save prep time.

 

[the Jester]

The worst offense by far is that adventures using the delve format tend to split the area descriptions into two, or even three places. The main adventure text has some details, the "Overview of the Area" section may have additional info, and the encounter "Features of the Area" has yet more. It is all too easy to miss describing some important detail because you are looking at the adventure overview and not the rest.

That's true, and an aspect I hadn't even considered even though I've run into it on a couple of occasions.

What's in the box? Don't tell me it's a level 4 parcel, because then I have to swap books to go figure that out. Tell me "The chest contains a ruby worth 150 gp, 32gp and a level 5-7 magic item suitable for a spellcaster". I am using a premade adventure to save prep time.

Seriously, I understand that the goal there is to allow for dms to customize items for their group, but SERIOUSLY NOW. It's far easier to just decide to swap in an item for the warlock than it is to go through and generate some ambiguous level 4 parcel or whatever. If the pre-made adventure doesn't actually fill in the blanks, it fails to serve the main purpose of pre-made adventures.

 

[Balesir]

Seriously, I understand that the goal there is to allow for dms to customize items for their group, but SERIOUSLY NOW. It's far easier to just decide to swap in an item for the warlock than it is to go through and generate some ambiguous level 4 parcel or whatever. If the pre-made adventure doesn't actually fill in the blanks, it fails to serve the main purpose of pre-made adventures.

100% agreed. Saying "A level 4 parcel" is just lazy; for best results give the full description of what is there by default, with "(Level 4 parcel)" written at the end (so that the DM can choose to swap in another Level 4 parcel if they want to/have time to/etc.).

 

[MrMyth]

I think Zinovia has nailed it.

The concept for the delve format - letting the DM switch to a single section to have the full details of the encounter - only works if that section has the full details of the encounter.

Now, the problem I think WotC has run into is fear of redundancy. If they discuss scenery in the exploration section, why bother sharing it in the combat section? And... I think that's their main mistake. Go ahead, print it twice - most of these details are not ones that take up a ton of space! And having the data self-contained makes the DMs job so much easier, and prevents the disruption of needing to flip back and forth to reference 3 or 4 different sections to assemble the full details of the encounter.

 

[the Jester]

Now, the problem I think WotC has run into is fear of redundancy. If they discuss scenery in the exploration section, why bother sharing it in the combat section? And... I think that's their main mistake. Go ahead, print it twice - most of these details are not ones that take up a ton of space!

Except why bother? Why not just put everything in there once, but all together?

 

[Balesir]

Except why bother? Why not just put everything in there once, but all together?

Because then you get a load of peripheral crap included when you're trying to run a combat slickly. Have the encounter outline with all the "alternate solution" and context stuff, then have a hyperlink to the "encounter combat" spread in delve format (with useful text repeated). That way, you have all bases covered (and you have the option to include layered maps and pop-up stat blocks).