How is the Wizard vs Warrior Balance Problem Handled in Fantasy Literature?

[Mort]

Yep I figured you guys would weasel out of the challenge any way you could.

...

PROVE IT!

I made no such claim.

And between my last post and Neonchameleon's I think it shows why such a challenge, issued under the terms it was is laughable at best and grossly disingenous at worst. And regardless, as stated, it means absolutely nothing unless all classes response to the same challenge is gauged.

 

[Diamond Cross]

Right, any excuse to not take the challenge.

That means you lose the entire argument.

The claim was a prepared wizard can easily handle the encounter. The quote is this:

Stop right there. The drow might have spell resistance, but that should not even slow a prepared wizard. The spells mentioned for taking out drow (Evard's Black Tentacles, Glitterdust) ignore spell resistance. So all the drow having spell resistance does is means you need to prepare the spellbook. Your objection here is irrelevant.

So I made the encounter.

Now you guys will not take up the challenge using and lame excuse you can to not take it.

Put your money where your mouth is or admit the wizard is not as powerful as you think it is.

Take the challenge as is.

 

[TwoSix]

When I made the "solo the game" comment, I didn't mean that a Wizard can defeat every encounter you could dream up.

I meant that he can face level-appropriate challenges in quantities sufficient enough to gain experience without undue risk to himself.

The minute the wizard is facing a challenge he didn't select, he gave up the very power that makes wizards so overpowered. And unless the DM applies extremely specific limitations or narrative contrivances (You have 24 hours to go through the Abyss or the world dies!), the wizard will never be in a situation he doesn't choose to be in.

 

[Diamond Cross]

When I made the "solo the game" comment, I didn't mean that a Wizard can defeat every encounter you could dream up.

I meant that he can face level-appropriate challenges in quantities sufficient enough to gain experience without undue risk to himself.

The minute the wizard is facing a challenge he didn't select, he gave up the very power that makes wizards so overpowered. And unless the DM applies extremely specific limitations or narrative contrivances (You have 24 hours to go through the Abyss or the world dies!), the wizard will never be in a situation he doesn't choose to be in.

And that's an admission that a wizard is not as powerful as you think it is.

But that's the thing about being an adventurer.

You are often caught in situations you do not choose to be in.

And I want to see very specific examples to this claim:

I meant that he can face level-appropriate challenges in quantities sufficient enough to gain experience without undue risk to himself.

Because for one thing, this mean he has to know about the situation before hand. That means intelligence gathering. Sure, he can do things like use a crystal ball for scrying, but there are protections against that as well.

And I believe you're still wrong on that as well.

And what exactly do you mean by level appropriate challenges? That's a pretty vague statement. I want to see specific examples of what you mean.

When you're an adventurer, your life will always be full of risks and situations you can't be prepared for. Still, any smart and imaginative
A wizard is indeed a powerful force to reckon with, but not as powerful as you think he or she is.

And my challenge still stands to anybody who truly believes that a wizard is just too much of a manly man for any fighter to beat.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Alright, folks. We should all just toss in our towels.

Plainly, Diamond Cross has proven us all to be liars.

Despite the fact that, yet again, he's completely missing the point. The well-played 18th-level wizard has enough tools in his bag to never have to deal with this stupid, contrived scenario.

And if it does come up, he's got the capabilities to say, "Screw this; I'm out of here and I'll deal with this tomorrow."

And I'll tell you what, DC - I'll consider doing this.* If.

And only if.

You run a fighter through the same gauntlet. We'll compare notes on who survives better.

* I really don't have all that much spare time to contribute to what is, essentially, a moronic process.

EDIT: Oh, yeah - and your spell knowledge restrictions and your "No Summoning!" rules are stupid. I won't abide by them, should I decide to take you up on your offer.

EDIT 2: Your drow can't be spellcasters, either. Otherwise, you're just making the argument that a Wizard with some help can beat a higher-level Wizard, which, you know, duh.

 

[Diamond Cross]

Despite the fact that, yet again, he's completely missing the point. The well-played 18th-level wizard has enough tools in his bag to never have to deal with this stupid, contrived scenario.

Your excuses to not do my challenge do not impress me.

Put up or shut up.

It is you who's missing the point. not me.

And by the way, the people in the villages these drow are slaughtering, well, their relatives and families would wonder where the wizard is and not look kindly on the wizards cowardice.

 

[Umbran]

...prove me wrong or shut up.

Let me make something abundantly clear - you don't get to set conditions under which others are allowed to speak. If they aren't breaking the rules you don't have a say. You don't get to bully, challenge, or attempt to humiliate folks into doing as you say.

So, back down on the confrontation, please. Anyone continuing the schoolyard challenge stuff will be on the losing side, I assure you.

 

[Diamond Cross]

Yeah, they can say anything they want to but I can't, especially when I am right and haven't done anything wrong.

You sure taught me a lesson.

Go ahead treat me unfairly, like you always do.

Mod Note: I was pretty clear on what was done wrong - no one gets to order or bully people around on these boards. Doubly so when the excuse for doing so is, "I'm right." This has always been the case, and it would be unfair for us to allow it here.

If you are here to win, to silence people who don't agree with you, you're on the wrong boards, folks.

As always, if you have an issue with moderation, take it to e-mail or PM. ~Umbran

 

[Jeff Wilder]

You run a fighter through the same gauntlet. We'll compare notes on who survives better.

And that's what it comes down to.

It's not enough for y'all that a fighter be interesting to play, and a contributor to a D&D party, in the game as it's intended to be played.

No, y'all look at the fighter and, for some reason I can't understand, insist that he be able to whoop-ass against the wizard and against every situation in which the wizard can whoop-ass. And in measuring this bizarre goal, you ignore the fact that the DM and the other players exist. For y'all, it's all about how bad-ass you can be, and whether you can "win" D&D.

That's just a fundamental difference in how we view the game, and a fundamental difference in how we want to play the game.

There's really nothing more to say.

 

[Diamond Cross]

Playing the game is all about team work and being part of a team, not being the biggest baddest dude you can be.