Need more military help

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I can chime in on Army stuff:

Rangers: There's the Regiment and then tab holders. For the Regiment, most rangers are 11-series, though there are a variety of support MOS as well. One can enlist for a Ranger option specifically, meaning one goes to Infantry Training, then Airborne, then the Ranger Indoctrination program, and if successful joins the Regiment as a Ranger. After some time in the Regiment and proving leadership capability, one can then attend Ranger School, which is a leadership course focused on patrolling (ambushes, raids, etc), and not really a "Spec Ops"-focused skill course, but it does award the Ranger Tab. Regiment Rangers get their "Spec Ops"-specific skills on the job in the Regiment and subsequently by attending special schools. Others joining the Regiment volunteer and are generally interviewed first, then must attend Airborne and ROP/RIP before joining the Regiment. "Tabbed" Rangers throughout the force have just graduated from Ranger School. They are mostly combat arms, E4 and above, and male-only, but have gotten a slot and attended Ranger School, but do not have to serve in the Regiment. Ranger School graduates wear the Ranger Tab; those assigned to the Regiment wear the tan beret (and all leaders in the Regiment are required to be tab-wearers). While all Regiment Rangers are Airborne qualified, it is possible to be a "Leg Ranger" and attend and pass Ranger School and receive the Ranger Tab without being Airborne qualified (though this is rare).

Special Forces: One can currently enlist directly for SF, though the traditional route is to volunteer for SF after reaching E5 (for enlisted) or CPT (for officers). Direct enlistees go to Infantry training, Airborne, the SF Assessment and Selection (SFAS), and if they pass then go on to the Qualification course for the specific MOS (18B Weapons, 18D medic, 18E communications, 18C demolitions). After passing the Q course they go to language training, then join an A-team and get subsequent specialty training from there (HALO, Scuba, sniper, etc). The traditional route has experienced E5 and above volunteer, then go to SFAS, and if successful the Q-course and remaining route. One can be any MOS to volunteer for SF, though most are Infantry background (or other combat arms). Senior SF NCOs can become SF Warrant Officers to become team 2ICs and intel/ops specialists. Officers can start in any branch (must be male), must volunteer for and be selected for SF as a CPT(P), and attend SFAS. If successful, they attend a basic branch career course (usually Maneuver), then the Q-course, etc. SF units also have "other MOS" support MOS (like logistics/supply) that must be Airborne but are otherwise not specially selected, and are not "SF-qualified" (meaning they do not wear the "long Tab" -- the "Special Forces" tab and Green Beret that only Q-course graduates wear).

Delta: Delta operatives are recruited from the Army at large and do not have to be either combat arms or other SF background (though combat arms and Ranger/SF are the majority of backgrounds). Volunteers must be E5(P) or branch-qualified CPT and above, so these are all experienced folks usually with a minimum of 8 years of service behind them already. If they pass initial screening (psych interviews and physical fitness test), they are sent to a grueling selection course, and those passing enter operator training and are taught the specific CT skills that Delta performs, and eventually receive other specialty training. Delta also has a support squadron consisting of specially selected "other MOS" personnel (all the sorts of specialties that support other units: intel, personnel, communications, logistics, etc, etc) -- they are carefully screened to ensure they are the best of their field, but do not go through the operator selection course or operator training, and are not considered operators. All Delta operatives and support personnel are required to be Airborne qualified (those not Airborne at selection are sent to the course).

Other Army "Spec Ops" fields include Psychological Operations, Civil Affairs, and the aviators of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, all of which fall under the US Army Special Operations Command at Ft Bragg NC. PSYOPS and CA are entry MOS for enlisted and secondary career fields for officers, and are their own units. SOAR aviators are chosen from highly experienced pilots and other aviation personnel; the 160th provides specialty aviation support for special operations of all types and flies uniquely configured aircraft and missions.

Hope that helps some.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Olgar is dead on, but there are a couple things I can add.

Rangers - It's getting harder and harder to earn the tab without Airborne training. Something about the term Airborne Ranger that tends to make those guys get all weepy and nostalgic.

SF - It used to be that you could be a "leg SF" but after Vietnam that went the way of the dodo bird. The support ops that Olgar spoke of are your traditional service and support folks, (Quatermaster, Signal, etc.) There is an operational variant known as a SOT-A (Special Operation Team Alpha (which BTW is NOT an A-Team (different beast) that consists of 5 MI personnel, a RATTLO (Radio/Telephone/Telegraph Operator) and three green beans (a medic and two riflemen). Their job is to go deep in enemy territory and intercept. The medic is to make sure they all get back alive, the two riflemen are to dispose of the operators if they can't... (isn't being a spook fun?) As an aside, outside of CPTs, very few officers assigned to SF actual end up in operations, most of them are B-Team or C-Team (sectional Field HQ and regional Field HQ) Mostly because officers are branch immaterial. (Even the Combat Arms). Most of the SF Officers I've met are actually Psy Ops guys and Tactical Intelligence Analysts, no less sharp, just focused in different operations. [MENTION=5868]Olgar Shiverstone[/MENTION] you're an officer if IRC, can you verify this?

Delta - One very important detail that Olgar left out was that Delta is a ONE TOUR SHOW. I got recruited for Delta my last year in Army. They tell you at the briefing that any MOS can join, they train you to their needs and than after one tour, you're done. If you wish to stay on, you are required to re-class to a combat arms MOS first before you can re-join the team. Unlike SEALs, Delta wants to ensure that operatives are psychologically prepared by keeping them from attaining "god complexes" (I'm Delta and you're not!) and sending them out of the rotation keeps these guys humble (well as humble as any SOs can be I guess.) (Not that SEALs are nuts (well, you know what I mean) just that teams gain and lose new members like any other force, through re-assignments and DEROS dates) Also, it keeps teams cohesive, they start and end their cycles together, first training up, operating and then training the next batch before disbanding. (Of course that was 22 years ago, so this could have changed...)

SEALs are probably the most intensely trained of the group outside Delta. They will tell you, they train, then train again and then train some more. For example, by the time that unit hit the ground in Pakistan, they had run their target probably 50 times, even though they probably didn't know who or what they would be up against. They would have had the layout mapped at their training facility and rehearsed every step over and over again. The target was inconsequential, the operation however was drilled before they ever knew who the target was.

PJs - (Air Force Para Rescue) are often overlooked as SF forces, because unlike their counterparts, they are more operationally defensive (extraction, medical, document/equipment destruction) rather than tactically offensive. This is a sore injustice and a serious error in judgement to the offender. They can kill just as good as they can heal. Unlike a medic, they are outside the Geneva conventions "medical savior laws" (medical personnel cannot willfully harm or cause undue damage to human life and therefore can expect preferential treatment by enemy combatants. (actually that means shoot at the red crosses so there is no evidence). PJs can use mines (medics cannot), HE and Frag grenades
(medics cannot), booby traps, High Explosives and a host of other things that would make a medic cry. Of course if they are captured, they can expect to be tortured or at the very least brutally beaten and interrogated. Therefore, PJs are the finest SERE troops the US military can train. And they can usually do it while tending to and carrying a casualty. Unlike the other SOs, there are no officers in the operational mode of PJs, there are no officer medics, just doctors and they are far too valuable to put in that kind of risk. However, many of the officers in PJ units are flight surgeons and are trained in in air medicine (I wonder why?).

Special Operations Air Mobility (the name changes so often I won't even try to get it right) - these are pilots trained to get Spec Ops to and from their operations. While receiving no training that is different from their other pilot counterparts, they are, like all Spec Ops drilled over and over in the most adverse of conditions. All pilots are trained to fly at night and NOE (nap of the earth), but rarely are they trained at any length to do both simultaneously (because its dangerous) Spec Ops pilots earn their living doing just that, constantly.

Marine LRRP (Recon) has been recently acknowledged as the "7th" branch of Special Ops. Recon teams are dropped as close to are behind enemy lines to reconnoiter and report enemy movements. The only reason these guys are now considered SOs are for the rather extreme training they receive and the new reliance on eyes on target intelligence that the brass wants. I actually watched the CSPAN broadcast of the Spec Ops appropriation committee of the Senate when they were first added to the TO&E, I thought Arlen Spector was going to have a coronary when the General told him, when questioned about their inclusion, "Mr Senator, I don't ask you why you vote yourself a pay raise every year, your need to know of their operational capabilities are minimal at best and because I said so should be more than sufficient." I almost cried with glee when I saw that. As to their make up, they are Marines, only more so, any more than that is just redundant.

Hope this helps, any thing else more specific you need, just ask. If I don't know it, I'll try to dig it up for you.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

SF - As an aside, outside of CPTs, very few officers assigned to SF actual end up in operations, most of them are B-Team or C-Team (sectional Field HQ and regional Field HQ) Mostly because officers are branch immaterial. (Even the Combat Arms). Most of the SF Officers I've met are actually Psy Ops guys and Tactical Intelligence Analysts, no less sharp, just focused in different operations. [MENTION=5868]Olgar Shiverstone[/MENTION] you're an officer if IRC, can you verify this?

Ayup, 18 years and counting ...

On SF officers: Special Forces is its own combat arms branch; SF officers wear the crossed arrows, green berets, and long tab once they complete the SF-Q course. The initial "branch qualifying assignment" for SF officers is leadership of an A-team (or Operational Detachment Alpha, ODA), which is the equivalent of company command in other branches like Infantry and Armor. Subsequent assignments will include staff jobs at battalion and group level, company command, service as a SOF specialist/liaison at other command staffs, jobs in the SF training pipeline, etc. Since the ODAs are the primary operational formation, and there is the usual staff at company (commanded by a Major, rather than a captain), battalion, and Group level, there are a lot of SF-qualified officers not working at the ODA level but supporting/commanding multiple ODAs.

PSYOPs and CA officers and enlisted are Special Operations but not Special Forces, if that makes sense -- they are not SF branch personnel, don't get the perqs, and don't perform the same missions. There are also a number of other support personnel, both officers and enlisted, in an SF Group/Battalion/Company who are part of the SF organization but are not SF (examples: the Intel officer, the Signal officer, the supply sergeant) ... those folks will wear a red (Airborne) beret, the SF unit patch w/airborne tab (but no long tab), and their primary branch brass (well, when we wear brass, which isn't often anymore since they pulled branch insignia from our combat uniforms).

Given the excess number of SF-qualified officers resulting from a tight "pyramid" I've run into a lot of them working in other fields. My last boss and prior garrison commander were both SF guys that spent most of their careers post-ODA outside of SF Groups, which is a bit of a bummer for them, but given that there are umpteen ODAs but only 15 battalions and 5 group commands they have to find homes elsewhere. My last boss for example had not commanded in SF since the company level but had commanded a Corp HQ battalion, the garrison at Ft Leavenworth, and Bagram airbase. In between commands he served on multiple staffs supporting special operations.

Marine LRRP (Recon) has been recently acknowledged as the "7th" branch of Special Ops.

Technically, it's not Marine Force Recon that's Special Operations (though admittedly the Force Recon Marines have skills and missions that are Spec Ops-like); it's MARSOC (Marine Special Operations), who are being recruited and trained for missions very similar to Army SF. Most as you can expect are recruited from the Force Recon ranks, and the initial DET One complement was built by stripping Force Recon so the confusion is understandable, but the Force Recon companies have been reconstituted within the standard force structure in slightly different organizations. (This ignores the "Special Operations-capable" labels that the Marines give some of their MAGTFs, which essentially speaks to the ability to conduct certain types of missions but does not really make the MAGTF a SOF force.)


As an aside -- if you're going for a military-themed roleplaying game, focusing on Special Operations makes a lot of sense, as it can use a mix of skills and backgrounds, provide for a number of different mission types in short order, and otherwise closely model a typical D&D game without sacrificing a certain amount of "realism". You can discount rank a lot, and not worry so much about replicating a formal chain of command. In fact, by making the PCs a sort of Tier 1 "Special Mission Unit" you can keep the game wide open as the PCs perform covert national-level missions. If you take this approach, I'd recommend starting all PCs at 5th level or so to replicate their experience; players can select the first 5 levels of classes/skills/feats etc to replicate the skills and experience gained in "conventional" forces (or even conventional Special Operations) before being assigned to the super-secret SMU that is the focus of the campaign.

Happy gaming!

 

[Thunderfoot]

<SNIP>
Technically, it's not Marine Force Recon that's Special Operations (though admittedly the Force Recon Marines have skills and missions that are Spec Ops-like); it's MARSOC (Marine Special Operations)<SNIP>

They hadn't been named as such in the original Senate hearings, they were still referring to Recon as the new force, so it's nice to see a distinction, but Recon is still closer to Ranger than any other force.

I try not to stay too informed, because I still have three years before they stop looking at me to recall my butt, but I fail miserably.

 

[garrowolf]

How does this look?


US Modern Military Characters

Basic Training

Army/Marines (lvl 5)
Str +1, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +0, Wit +1, Pre +1
Basic Skills: Computer, Medical, Perception, Stealth, Tactics
Academics: Military Procedures
Athletics: Forced March
Drive: Off Road Driving, Heavy Trucks
Martial Arts: Grapple Basics
Melee: Knife
Operations: Chem Warfare Training
Ranged: Automatic Weapons, Grenadier, Heavy Weapons, Portable Missiles
Resistance: Tireless, Medium Armor
Resolve: Spirit of the Corp
Survival: Camouflage

spend 8 more feats on MOS

Navy (lvl 5)
Str +0, Dex +1, Con +2, Int +2, Wit +1, Pre +1
Basic Skills: Computer, Drive, Martial Arts, Medical, Perception, Persuasion, Ranged, Science, Tactical
Academics: Military Procedures
Athletics: Swimming
Engineering: Mechanical
Operations: Chem Warfare training, Fire Fighting, Communications
Resistance: Light Sleeper
Resolve: Spirit of the Corp
Survival: Ocean Training

Spend 3 upgrades and 11 more feats on MOS

Air Force (lvl 5)
Str +0, Dex +1, Con +2, Int +2, Wit +1, Pre +1
Basic Skills: Computer, Drive, Engineering, Martial Arts, Medical, Perception, Science, Survival, Tactics
Academics: Military Procedures
Athletics: Running
Operations: Chem Warfare training
Ranged: Automatic Weapons
Resistance: Medium Armor
Resolve: Spirit of the Corp

Spend 3 upgrades, 1 trained, and 13 more feats on MOS.


Military Occupational Specialties (MOS)
Choose an MOS for advanced training after Basic. You can use these to fill in misc feats from the basic packages or spend them as you level up. Most people stay with a certain MOS their whole careers but some of these, such as the various Terrain schools can be taken one after another. Look to your MOS to figure out what your Primary skills should be.

Air Assault Training – (ath) Rappelling, (ath) Break Fall, (ops) Sling Load
Amphibious Assault Training – (sur) Amphibious Training, (ath) Swimming, (drv) Amphibious Driving
Arctic Warfare College – (sur) Arctic Training, (drv) Icy Terrain, (eng) Demolitions, (ath) Skiing
Armor – (drv) Tanks, (ops) Sensors, (ops) Communications, (ops) Vehicle Weapons, (ops) Navigation
Artillery – (ops) Artillery, (eng) Structural, (ops) Missile Gunnery, (ops) Navigation
Aviation Support – (ops) Air Traffic Control, (ops) Sensors, (ops) Communications, (ops) Aviation Support, (eng) Electronics, (eng) Mechanical, (eng) Aircraft Mechanic
CBRN Defense – (sci) Chemistry, (sci) Chemical Weapons, (ops) Hazmat Containment, Nuclear Weapons, Chemical Reconnaissance
Combat Engineering – (eng) Mine Laying, Mine Clearing, Demolitions, Electrical
Construction Engineering - (drv) Construction Vehicles, (eng) Bridging, (eng) Demolitions, (eng) Electrical, (eng) Mechanical, (eng) Structural
Defense Language Institute – (aca) Choose two Languages
Desert Warfare College – (sur) Desert Training, (drv) Desert Driving
Diver – (ath) Swimming, (ath) Breath Control, (ath) Diving, (eng) Demolitions, (eng) Electrical, (eng) Mechanical
Explosive Ordinance Disposal (EOD) – (eng) Electrical, Demolitions, Mine Clearing,
Infantryman – (rng) Heavy Weapons, (rng) Rifle, (eng) Mine Laying, (tac) Patrol Scale Ambush, (tac) Human Trapping, (tac) choose one Terrain, (tac) Small Unit Tactics
Jump School – (ath) Parachute, (ath) Break fall
Jungle/Swamp Warfare College – (sur) Jungle Training, (sur) Swamp Training
Law Enforcement – (tac) Police Tactics, (per) Spot Criminals, (per) Detect Lies, (per) Crime Scene Investigation, (per) Spot Concealed, (prs) Interrogation, (prs) Gather Information, (ma) Grappling Basics,
Medical – (med – Focused) NBC treatment, Psychology, Pharmacology, Bush Medicine, (sci) Biology, (sci) Chemistry, (ops) Hazmat Containment
Mountain Warfare College – (sur) Mountain Training, (ath) Climbing, (ath) Rappelling
Officer Training - +1 LA Social Status: Officer, (rsv) Leadership, (aca) Administration
Pilot – (plt) Air Recon, Dog-Fighting, Escort, Formation, Strafing, Choose Helicopter or Jet Fighter, (eng) Electrical, (eng) Mechanical, (tac) Air Combat Tactics, (ops) Communications, Missile Gunnery, Navigation, Sensors, Vehicle Weapons
Recon – (rng) Heavy Weapons, Rifle, (eng) Demolitions, Stealth skill, (ops) Communications
SERE – (sth) Evasion, (rsv) Resist Torture, (rsv) Resist Persuasion, (rsv) Resist Intimidation
Signals – (hrd) Networking, (ops) Communications, (eng) Electrical, (eng) Communications
Signals Intelligence – (hrd) Networking, (ops) Communications, (aca) Linguistics, (aca) Cryptography, (ops) Electronic Warfare
Sniper – (rng - Focused) Rifle, Sniper, Deadly Shot, Stealth Skill, (ops) Communications
UAV Operations – (ops) Air Traffic Control, (ops) Drone Control, (plt) Air Recon, (plt) Strafing, (ops) Sensors, (ops) Electronic Warfare, (ops) Navigation
Urban Warfare College – (tac) Urban Combat, (eng) Mine Laying, (ath) Climbing, (ath) Rappelling


Special Operations Training
You can take these as long as you meet the Requirements and you have no criminal background.


Air Force Combat Controllers
Requirements: Aviation Support MOS, Stealth (T), Jump School MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: Defense Language Institute MOS, One Terrain Warfare College MOS, (Per) Diplomacy, Construction Engineering MOS

Air Force Pararescue
Requirements: Medical MOS, Jump School MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: Defense Language Institute MOS, One Terrain Warfare College MOS, (Prc) Eagle Eye, Ranged (F)

Army Ranger
Requirements: Infantryman MOS, Jump School MOS, one Terrain Warfare College MOS, Athletics (F), Resolve (F), Resistance (F)
Training: (Eng) Demolitions, (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare, additional Terrain Warfare College MOS, Ranged (F), Resistance (F)

Army SOAR
Requirements: Pilot MOS, Jump School MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: Aviation Support MOS, (Pilot) Air Support, Strafing

Army Delta Force
Requirements: Infantryman MOS, Jump School MOS, Urban Warfare College MOS, Defense Language Institute MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: (ops) Electronic Warfare, (Per) Gather Information, (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare, Hostage Situations, (Ath) Forced Entry, (eng) Demolitions, Ranged (F), Stealth (F)

Army Special Forces (Green Berets)
Requirements: Jump School MOS, Defense Language Institute MOS, Signals MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: (sur:F) Indigenous Training, (tac) Special Operations Warfare, (ops) Electronic Warfare, (Per) Gather Information, (eng) Demolitions, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), (ath) Swimming, Survival (F)

Marine Force Recon
Requirements: Amphibious Assault Training MOS, Jump School MOS, Jungle/Swamp Training MOS, Infantryman MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: (tac) Special Operations Warfare, (Per) Surveillance, (eng) Demolitions, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), Survival (F), Sniper MOS

Navy Seals
Requirements: Amphibious Assault Training MOS, Diver MOS, Drive (Powerboat), Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: (nat) Navigation, Ocean Training, Sailboats, (ath) Underwater Combat, (tac) Special Operations Warfare, (Per) Surveillance, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), Survival (F)

Navy Special Boat Units
Requirements: Amphibious Assault Training MOS, Jungle/Swamp Training MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: Drive (Powerboat), (ath) Swimming, (nat) Ocean Gunnery, Navigation, (tac) Special Operations Warfare, (Per) Surveillance, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), Survival (F)

 

[Thunderfoot]

Looks good,

A quick list of things I would reconsider though:
I would change out the PJs DLI training for SERE training because they have more emphasis on escape and evasion rather than interaction.

Delta is an odd thing to try and shoehorn, the Infantryman and DLI MOSs should probably be moved to training. The requirements are probably going to be less than the other SO specialties but the training should have the extras thrown in. I know you are trying to design a balanced game, but this is probably the biggest indicator that real life isn't balanced.

I love what you've done, the work and attention to detail would do any service member proud.

 

[garrowolf]

Thanks Thunderfoot I really appreciate the complement!

So what group should I put this feat under:
Forward Observer – You know how to call down artillery and air support attacks correctly.

Should it go under Basic Training or an MOS?

 

[garrowolf]

Thanks Thunderfoot I really appreciate the complement!

I fixed those things and I changed Perception (Surveillance) to Perception (Recon)

So what group should I put this feat under:
Forward Observer – You know how to call down artillery and air support attacks correctly.

Should it go under Basic Training or an MOS?

 

[El Mahdi]

How does this look?...

I have looked over your Nexus pages but I haven't really sat down and dug into it to figure out how it completely works. I should sit down with it and make a character up and see how it works (I'll let you look at it to make sure I'm getting it right), but I haven't had the time to really dig in. But I have gathered from what you've said that levels are a little different than standard D20, and don't necessarily mean gained experience (like a 1st level D20 character playing their way up to 5th...). So, I guess 5th level is okay, especially as it's probably the only way for them to have all the training they would have had in reality, so...

I do see a few things:

Air Force Combat Controllers should also have Diver School (they go to the Air Force Combat Diving School - though it probably doesn't include Demolitions like SEAL training). Maybe swap it for the Defense Language Institute MOS (I'm not really sure why they'd have that, it's not part of their training as I know it. If a team needs a specialized language asset they'll most likely just take somebody specifically trained in a language - after a crash combat course - or a local friendly. That's not to say that there aren't operators with certain language skills, but they probably didn't gain them as part of their training, they probably had it before even entering the service.).

They should also have (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare. They get trained in special operations unit combat through Special Tactics training. They also recieve Survival Training, and advanced jumping (HALO). Not sure what HALO is under as I didn't see it in the above list.

Air Force Pararescue should also have (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare (from ST training), and Survival Training. Also Diver School (trust me, these guys are fishes - just like SEALs but minus the demolitions). And they can HALO also.


I haven't seen this before on your list, and I don't know if anyone has mentioned it before in this thread or the others, but there's a specific school called SERE (for Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape). You already have skills/feats for Survival and Resistance - maybe another one for Evasion/Escape???

Army SOAR - probably needs some kind of combat training also. Even though they are pilots and aircrew, they apparently go through a pretty intensive training program before being assigned to one of the units. I'd imagine it encompasses some combat training more inline with special tactics combat (over and above basic combat training from basic training, etc.). After their recent adventure in Afghanistan (I'm assuming the helicopters were from the Nighthawks), you might want to add some kind of Pilot skill for Stealth aircraft operation (due to those fancy stealth 60's they flew in - the secrets out on that one!). It's going to involve a bit more training and skill in understanding the technology (to know it's limitations) and more training about radar avoidance. (By the way - good work Nighthawks - that is, if it was you guys...)

Navy SEAL - I didn't see Jump School. They definitely know HALO also. (HALO isn't taught in basic Jump School. Okay, I took a quick look at your Nexus page and I see that it's a Focus Feat in your system - but this would definitely be required for SEAL's, and eventually required Advanced Training for PJ's and TAC-P's).

I'll let Olgar and Thunderfoot look over the Army stuff.

<SNIP>
Technically, it's not Marine Force Recon that's Special Operations (though admittedly the Force Recon Marines have skills and missions that are Spec Ops-like); it's MARSOC (Marine Special Operations)<SNIP>

They hadn't been named as such in the original Senate hearings, they were still referring to Recon as the new force, so it's nice to see a distinction, but Recon is still closer to Ranger than any other force.

I was involved in (as a maintenance guy from an AFSOC helicopter unit) a joint special ops exercise in the Pacific (I was deployed for another such exercise when we were forced to leave the country after less than a day, due to that whole thing with Estrada). It was a joint task force made up of SEAL's, Rangers, Marine Recon, and AFSOC (53's, 130's, and STS). Kind of a Desert One type scenario. At the time I didn't realize that Marine Recon wasn't an official part of the SOF community (technically I wasn't either, though even much less so than Recon...). Things have definitely changed organization wise since then (I was just reading on Wikipedia about what Olgar was saying). I'm sure having an actual special ops unit/capability and budget helps them really do some things now. Very Cool.

I try not to stay too informed, because I still have three years before they stop looking at me to recall my butt, but I fail miserably.

Only 4 more months for me, then I'm free and clear. Of course as just a maintenance guy and not part of a critical career field, I really don't have anything to worry about short of WWIII. I've seen stop-losses in mine and related career fields, but never recalls.




edit: Damn. Olgar got to that SERE thing before I did. It took me too long to type up my post...

 

[garrowolf]

How about this? Also there is already a SERE MOS in that list.



Special Operations Training
You can take these as long as you meet the Requirements and you have no criminal background.


Air Force Combat Controllers
Requirements: Aviation Support MOS, Stealth (T), Jump School MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: Diving MOS, (ath:F) HALO, One Terrain Warfare College MOS, (Per) Diplomacy, Construction Engineering MOS, (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare

Air Force Pararescue
Requirements: Medical MOS, Jump School MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: One Terrain Warfare College MOS, (Prc) Eagle Eye, Ranged (F), SERE MOS, (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare, Diving MOS, (ath: F) HALO

Army Ranger
Requirements: Infantryman MOS, Jump School MOS, one Terrain Warfare College MOS, Athletics (F), Resolve (F), Resistance (F)
Training: (Eng) Demolitions, (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare, additional Terrain Warfare College MOS, Ranged (F), Resistance (F)

Army SOAR
Requirements: Pilot MOS, Jump School MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: Aviation Support MOS, (Pilot:F) Air Support, Strafing, Search and Rescue, Stealth

Army Delta Force
Requirements: Jump School MOS, Urban Warfare College MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: (ops) Electronic Warfare, (Per) Gather Information, (Tactics) Special Operations Warfare, Hostage Situations, (Ath) Forced Entry, (eng) Demolitions, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), (per) Reconnaissance, Infantryman MOS, Defense Language Institute MOS

Army Special Forces (Green Berets)
Requirements: Jump School MOS, Defense Language Institute MOS, Signals MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: (sur:F) Indigenous Training, (tac) Special Operations Warfare, (ops) Electronic Warfare, (Per) Gather Information, (eng) Demolitions, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), (ath) Swimming, Survival (F), (per) Reconnaissance

Marine Special Operations
Requirements: Amphibious Assault Training MOS, Jump School MOS, Jungle/Swamp Training MOS, Infantryman MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: (tac) Special Operations Warfare, , (per) Reconnaissance, (eng) Demolitions, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), Survival (F), Sniper MOS

Navy Seals
Requirements: Amphibious Assault Training MOS, Diver MOS, Drive (Powerboat), Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: (nat) Navigation, Ocean Training, Sailboats, (ath) Underwater Combat, (tac) Special Operations Warfare, , (per) Reconnaissance, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), Survival (F), Jump School MOS, (Ath:F) HALO

Navy Special Boat Units
Requirements: Amphibious Assault Training MOS, Jungle/Swamp Training MOS, Resolve (F), Athletics (F), Resistance (F)
Training: Drive (Powerboat), (ath) Swimming, (nat) Ocean Gunnery, Navigation, Riverboats (tac) Special Operations Warfare, , (per) Reconnaissance, Ranged (F), Stealth (F), Survival (F)