Pathfinder 1E Is Paizo the new Palladium? (It isn't!)

[Walking Dad]

1. Both use a system for their games that critics call outdated/needing a fix.
2. One has not made meaningful changes to the rules. The other has promised the same thing to the fans.
3. Both have settings with very flavorful backgrounds, used even by the critics with different systems.
4. Both have a very devoted fan base that will defend the mechanic bits of the system against any critic.
5. One were very successful, one is right now.

It seems there are some similarities in regard of system adherence (avoiding new editions) and in the wishes of the fandom.

Am I totally wrong???

Before you answer, I want to say that I'm really not trolling. And please read the link in this thread to keep things civil. Thanks.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...ding-edition-wars-other-heated-arguments.html

Edit: I hope my changes cleared my attentions enough.

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Conclusion

Yes, I was totally wrong. I should have compared systems and not companies, and even then, the similarities were just to general.

Sorry for bothering anyone with this thread.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

You know, pointing to that article, and to that thread, does not mean that you are not trolling. It could just mean that you are being oblique about it.

The Auld Grump

 

[Walking Dad]

Which statement is so very offending?

Do you want to say that likening Paizo to Palladium is an insult? I own and love books from both companies.
I try to relate one successful publisher to another in a humorous way. Sorry if I failed. Or would it have been better to post this in 'General' instead?

Which of 1-5 is wrong?



Edit: I have deleted one word that may have sounded offending.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Which statement is so very offending?

Do you want to say that likening Paizo to Palladium is an insult? I own and love books from both companies.

Which of 1-5 is wrong?



Edit: I have deleted one word that may have sounded offending.

Because Palladium is widely considered to be badly run, badly edited, badly balanced, under financed, and under the control of a micromanaging megalomaniac maybe? Trust me, if there were rolling eye emoticons on this board, I would be using them.

I actually meant my post to lampshade #3, but your reply made me reconsider it under a serious light. I actually was planning to footnote that reference, but....

An insult is no less an insult when pointing to a convenient, but irrelevant, article. 'You are ugly and your mama dresses you funny. I am not trolling, here, look at this article about giraffes.'

For that matter there can be trolling that is inoffensive, but when you begin with an offensive premise that you are defending as not a troll before the first reply it seems pretty obvious that it is a deliberately offensive premise. That you posted it in the Pathfinder discussion area lends credence to that assumption. If someone had (or has) done so in the 4e area I would expect posters to treat the subject as an attempt at trolling.

So, I am treating it in the same manner that I would an attempt at trolling, under the assumption that it is a duck.

The Auld Grump

 

[Walking Dad]

The Pathfinder games I played/play here:

Pathfinder
Sivan in Rise of the Runelords AP OOC Old Thread
Kaddok in Dogville - a bloody dnd game OOC
Aramil in Creamsteak's Pathfinder Sunless Citadel OOC
Zakok in Kill Bargle! OOC Old Thread
Sivan in Rise of the Runelords AP OOC Info
Rorgar in TRM's Second Darkness OOC
Sivan in Rise of the Runelords AP OOC
Raven in Malvoisin's Dungeonaday Playtest OOC
Eldan in The Forgotten Terror OOC
Bael Tearlani in Crimson Throne AP OOC
Rorgar in Aeson's Second Darkness OOC
Devos in Flames of Littleton OOC
Xenon in Age of Woe OOC
Brother Darion in Homebrew OOC
Lamad Leroung in Red Hand of Doom OOC
Auris D'Leroy in The Forge of Fury OOC
Fantalass in WotBS OOC
Dorian Greenleaf in The Whispering Cairn OOC
Darsuul in Gandalfs evil game OOC
Hagnim in Carrion Crown AP (Savage Stampede) OOC
Growling Ape in The Romance of the River Kingdoms OOC
Tusk in Serpent's Skull OOC
Wilbur in The Shackled City OOC

Do you still think I want to bash Paizo?

Because Palladium is widely considered to be badly run, badly edited, badly balanced, under financed, and under the control of a micromanaging megalomaniac maybe? Trust me, if there were rolling eye emoticons on this board, I would be using them.

And none of this parts were considered in my 5 points.

I relate their outspoken fandom, adherence to an 'older' rules system (3.X) and the disparity between rules and fluff as viewed by the critics to the system.

That you posted it in the Pathfinder discussion area lends credence to that assumption. If someone had (or has) done so in the 4e area I would expect posters to treat the subject as an attempt at trolling.

So maybe the mods can move it? (I made just a request in 'Meta'.)
It is about a game with it's own subforum, so I posted it there. The other game is Rifts etc, but it lacks a subforum.

If I had posted this in 4e, this would haven't made any sense.

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Please consider that English isn't my native language. Maybe it wasn't just badly stated.

 

[DaveMage]

Am I totally wrong???

Yes.

Paizo is not the new Palladium any more than WotC is the new Mayfair.

 

[IronWolf]

I seriously doubt Walking Dad was trying to troll with this thread and something just read poorly given the nature of forum communication. I've read the initial post and I'm just not picking up any real signs of trolling in it.

 

[Crothian]

1. Both use a system for their games that critics call outdated/needing a fix.
2. One has not made meaningful changes to the rules. The other has promised the same thing to the fans.
3. Both have settings with very flavorful backgrounds, used even by the critics with different systems.
4. Both have a very devoted fan base that will defend the mechanic bits of the system against any critic.
5. One were very successful, one is right now.

I don't think you are trolling and even if you are calling this a troll does not help the situation it just makes it worse.

Let's take a look at the points

1) I think this is a complaint that critics of almost every system use. I've seen critics said that about the new World of Darkness and Dresden Files. So, it might be a little too general a complaint to connect the companies.

2) This is closer and is true. I would love to see Pathfinder forget it's promise to work with 3e as much as I'd love to see Palladium fix its own mechanics problems.

3) This is another point that can really apply to other games as well. GURPs might be the best example of another company that does this.

4) Most games have a devoted fan base, so nothing unique here.

5) Again, lots of games have been successful.

I think the points are true but don't work as proof of the statement that well.

 

[Walking Dad]

Crothian, maybe you are right and I'm just to much on EN World

I see to much 4e fans being critic to nearly move Wizards does (I only say offline character builder) and always criticizing the system ("expertise feats are a bad math fix") that I thought this to be normal.

On the ATT forums, there is also critic on M&M regarding the skill cost, the worth of the Presence ability and other stuff.

So what I described is maybe the normality and the above the exception.

Answering you post

1) The critics on NWoD were for changing to much. Same with 4e. But Pathfinder (and Rifts) are the only cases I know were they were criticized for not changing enough.

2) This was also the point that got me thinking.

3) GURPS world backgrounds/fluff are often used with other systems? I honestly thought it was the other way around. They have officially adapted other 'world' to their system the OWoD line, for example).

4) As I said, both the D&D 4 and M&M fanbase are much more critical on their 'chosen' system.

5) Palladium got a real hype during their TMNT book phase. And Pathfinder was number one on a recent sell list.
But you are right, this is a very bad category to compare games/companies.

 

[Walking Dad]

Yes.

Paizo is not the new Palladium any more than WotC is the new Mayfair.

Can you please I explain. I'm not sure what you want to say, as I have limited knowledge of Mayfair.