I don't know what just happend, but it seems that Ayn Rand corrupted my player!

Sorry some of my peepee wound up in your cheerios. I'm also sorry if my hacked metaphor offended, but you know what I was trying to say, you just chose to attack the wrapper.

No, I wasn't responding to you as I did because I was emotional and overwrough and had lost my senses. And no, I don't know what you are trying to say with all these political metaphors.

But let me explain: By Capitalism, I meant private ownership.

Private ownership is technically Liberalism, and not Capitalism, but anyway.

You, as DM, believe you OWN the game, simply because you created the world.

That is indeed how things usually work, at least under a Liberal economic system a person is entitled to the fruits of his own labor. Generally speaking, when I run a game I make the division as follows - the players own their characters, their character's backstories, and all their actions that take place in the game. I own everything else. By virtue of the fact that I am the game provider and that the largest bulk of the economic cost, certainly in time and usually in money, falls on me, and by virtue of my position as arbiter and referee of the game, I'm in charge of the game. I don't believe I've ever met a player that found that relationship unfair. Granted, my six year old once complained about it until I pointed out to her that while she only got to be one character and I got to be many, her character was the protagonist and therefore the most important but she was six and its understandable that this obvious point would not immediately occur to her.

You believe in a gaming population where players will opt in & out of your table because you provide the experience (product) they want.

Yes; yes, I do. And in my experience, these beliefs are justified. I generally have a waiting list, as more people would like to be at my table than I am able to handle.

You act like a boss who treats his players like employees

Mixed metaphor alert. Are the players more like customers, who consume a product I provide, or are they more like employees? I personally prefer to think of them more like players, and I think your whole metaphor is merely obfuscation. We have suitable language to discuss the game master and player relationship without resorting to metaphors, so lets do so. The analogies are inherently less accurate than simply talking about the thing itself.

...whose sole task is to help you realize your campaign's arc.

It does not follow. Even if I have an authoritarian stance at the table, it doesn't necessarily follow that I desire the players to jump through any particular hoops in the story line. I run a flexible narrow-broad-narrow campaign structure which typically has planned branching points, and I typically tailor linearity to suit the tastes of the players. If the players want a railroad, I'll put it there for them. If they have their own ideas of whats entertaining and are highly proactive, then I'll expand the sandbox.

However, I insist on my fair wages. The game has to be fulfilling to me, or I won't run it. The players don't have to consume the product I provide, but I refuse to provide a product unless I derive some satisfaction from the experience. The DM is there to entertain the players, but the players are their to entertain the DM (and the other players).

I get the feeling from the rest of your post, that I'm not the one with the baggage.

Maybe having a kid changed something. Try spending 45 minutes building that lego truck, page by page, only to watch him smash it, on purpose, within 5 minutes. Frustrating? At first, yes. Seeing him smile & laugh? Worth it.

I'm only quoting this to explain it to Hobo, who didn't understand why this was relevant. It's an attempt to argue from authority. It's basically saying, "When you are as mature and experienced as I am, then you'll have a different perspective." Of course, like many other assumptions about me, it fails to realize that not only do I have kids, but I also wrote my own gaming system for them (Simple Imaginative Play System), and referee story games for them as well.
 

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Folks, I suggest we drop the political analogies. Politics itself is not an appropriate subject for these boards, and we'd have to discuss politics to get the analogies right. Try a different angle, please and thank you.
 

Who goes to Mass for Quantum Communion, where the wafer is both a wafer and the body of Christ until observed....

... this is so going into my next sci-fi campaign!

I simply meant that if you put me in a box with a bottle of booze, you will not know until you reopen the box whether I am dead drunk or not, and until you do, I exist in both states. ;)
 

I'm not sure how Rand figures into the original post, but she sure does to seem to be relevant to D&D.

In a typical D&D world, a handful individuals are the most powerful things. And most people don't matter very much, unless you count all the sentient beings the really powerful people had to kill in order for them to get powerful in the first place.

In a typical D&D world, if your plan goes awry thanks to the interference of others, the best option is usually burning something down.

In a typical D&D world, technology is really magic ie, you really can draw energy out of the air using nothing but determination, innate superiority, and mumbo-jumbo.

In a typical D&D world, the most valuable things are magic, so it follows the economy is based on magic --ie, mumbo-jumbo-- too. So it's literally true that a handful of superior, mumbo-jumbo spouting people can drive the entire economy by themselves, if they choose to do so, and are not busy shrugging in their secret ranch somewhere.

D&D sure looks pretty Objectivist to me!
 

Who goes to Mass for Quantum Communion, where the wafer is both a wafer and the body of Christ until observed....

... this is so going into my next sci-fi campaign!

I simply meant that if you put me in a box with a bottle of booze, you will not know until you reopen the box whether I am dead drunk or not, and until you do, I exist in both states. ;)
 

Given that she wrote a book entitled The Virtue of Selfishness, you probably don't need to qualify that statement with "in my estimation." ;)

Given that in the standard two-axis morality code of D&D, selfishness is generally considered Evil, and tends towards being Chaotic (self over group), does that mean that in D&D terms Objectivism is Chaotic Evil?
 

Given that in the standard two-axis morality code of D&D, selfishness is generally considered Evil, and tends towards being Chaotic (self over group), does that mean that in D&D terms Objectivism is Chaotic Evil?


Seeing how Roark blows up a building in The Fountainhead in a hissy fit of selfish indulgence, and he is a paragon of Randian objectivist behavior, I'd say chaotic neutral at best.
 

Given that in the standard two-axis morality code of D&D, selfishness is generally considered Evil, and tends towards being Chaotic (self over group), does that mean that in D&D terms Objectivism is Chaotic Evil?
It depends upon whether your premise that selfishness is generally considered Evil is true. At least with regard to 3.5 D&D, that is incorrect; in that edition, selfishness is a Neutral trait.

3.5 PHB said:
"Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of some duty to some evil deity or master.

People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships. A neutral person may sacrifice himself to protect his family or even his homeland, but he would not do so for strangers who are not related to him.
A committed Objectivist would not recognize any duty or obligation to protect or assist a stranger, but would certainly do so if the person were precious to the Objectivist. It's the person's relationship to the Objectivist's self that is important to the Objectivist, which is clearly a Neutral viewpoint in 3.5 D&D terms.
 


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