[Savage Worlds] New GM to SW and Sundered Skies...

[Greg K]

While we are on the topic of Tricks, Tricky Fighter is an edge Clint posted for those wanting fighters that emphasize the utilization of tricks.

 

[Greg K]

This is very helpful for 3.x/4e players to understand.

Agreed. When first coming to Savage World from some games including d20, it is easy to come away with the impression that a lot of the tactical options for melee and missile combat are lost. However, once you, actually, understand the system, you realize that appearances are deceiving and the system allows you to do quite a lot.

 

[Greg K]

I thought this would also be of interest.

I am not sure how the new Push maneuver works in Deluxe. However, prior to its release, Clint had followed up the the d20 maneuver conversion (linked in my post above) with a Push/Trip maneuver.

Push/Trip, basically, takes what is, essentially, an Agility trick and expands it to include what some people call a "Strength Trick" and rolls them into a maneuver that is, specifically, called out. So, it is also great for things like shoving or using a Shield Bash to knock people back.

 

[Is_907]

Push in Deluxe is an opposed Strength roll. Attacker can then Bash (push 1" for every success and raise, if opponent hits an obstacle and attacker had a raise, 1d6 damage), Shield Bash (same as Bash but also causes Str damage, +1/2/3 for small/med/large shields), or Knock Prone (simple.)
Attacker gets +2 on the roll if he moved 3" before doing this (running start.)

 

[catsclaw227]

Push in Deluxe is an opposed Strength roll. Attacker can then Bash (push 1" for every success and raise, if opponent hits an obstacle and attacker had a raise, 1d6 damage), Shield Bash (same as Bash but also causes Str damage, +1/2/3 for small/med/large shields), or Knock Prone (simple.)
Attacker gets +2 on the roll if he moved 3" before doing this (running start.)

Yup. Though there isn't a separate Trip maneuver, you could just do an Agility Trick and get the same thing done.

 

[Greg K]

Push in Deluxe is an opposed Strength roll. Attacker can then Bash (push 1" for every success and raise, if opponent hits an obstacle and attacker had a raise, 1d6 damage), Shield Bash (same as Bash but also causes Str damage, +1/2/3 for small/med/large shields), or Knock Prone (simple.)
Attacker gets +2 on the roll if he moved 3" before doing this (running start.)

So, Push in Deluxe is roughly the same as the link that with the differences being:
1. The linked version is 1" or 2" on a raise. Nothing for extra raises (because it was specifically said to represent a shove and not knockback)
2. The linked version does no damage for hitting an obstacle (because it is represents a shove not Knockback. Plus, the linked version is treated as a trick and tricks do not do damage)
3. The linked version calls out the Agility Trick application, by incorporating into the maneuver as an option to strength.
4. Instead of the Deluxe version's +2 bonus for movement, the linked version uses a combination of move + Wild Attack (if you want a bonus to the roll).
5. The defender can oppose with Strength or Agility (their choice) in the linked version

 

[Is_907]

So I've heard from a few people who have only passing experience with SW rules that (paraphrase) "it just doesn't do fantasy games as well" and "SW is an excellent choice for non-fantasy worlds."

Thoughts? Responses?
So far I see no reason why it would NOT work well for a fantasy game... except that players might come in with preconceptions tied to the d20 or D&D framework.

 

[Henry]

Thoughts? Responses?
So far I see no reason why it would NOT work well for a fantasy game... except that players might come in with preconceptions tied to the d20 or D&D framework.

I think that's the big supposition -- if the players are familiar with d20 Fantasy, and a fantasy game is their first experience with SW, then they are naturally going to make many parallels that don't give the system a fair shake. I like the system, but any time I've played it (never GMed it yet) I've played steampunk, modern, sci-fi, pulp, etc. -- if I want fantasy I'll probably go to D&D for it, despite that there's no reason for SW not to do great with fantasy genres.

 

[amerigoV]

So I've heard from a few people who have only passing experience with SW rules that (paraphrase) "it just doesn't do fantasy games as well" and "SW is an excellent choice for non-fantasy worlds."

Thoughts? Responses?
So far I see no reason why it would NOT work well for a fantasy game... except that players might come in with preconceptions tied to the d20 or D&D framework.

I used SW for fantasy all the time. I would not say fantasy is SW sweet spot, however. It cannot compete purely with D&D, and it should not. D&D is honed to run high fantasy campaigns. So you if you continually throw Dragons, Giants, and Tarrasques at your PCs, SW will struggle to a degree. Those super high toughness creatues are a real bitch to fight in SW -- you are not going to win going toe to toe with those types of critters (as is the expectation in D&D). You can win, but it requires more planning, thought and strategery than D&D.

That said, you will have more fun running/playing fantasy than in D&D *IF* you use Savage Worlds strengths. You do not throw a group of Ogres at a group, you throw a ton of orc or goblin Extras led by a badass Wild Card Ogre. You can then have a mad Chase scene when the rest of the Orc horde comes over the hill in revenge. Then, you have a cool Social Conflict where you barely convince the Prince that a horde is on its way. He will muster the army in exchange for a service after the battle. Then you can run a Mass Combat in which the PCs influnce the outcome. As a reward, you might gain a title (Noble Edge) and now your campaign completely evolves.

All that is in the Core rules. The Fantasy Companion add a bit to the the mix but it truly is not a high need.

So while SW does not compete toe to toe with 3e or 4e in pure kick down the door and take their stuff, but it does a good job overall and I find it really brings back some of the Olde Skoole feel from earlier D&D (heck, even those Grognard Dragonsfoot folks have SW stuff on their site). Plus, you can warp/portal your PCs into Deadlands for a couple of sessions like EGG used to do (remember the Boot Hill conversion in DMG 1e?) and YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CONVERT A THING.

 

[Is_907]

That said, you will have more fun running/playing fantasy than in D&D *IF* you use Savage Worlds strengths. You do not throw a group of Ogres at a group, you throw a ton of orc or goblin Extras led by a badass Wild Card Ogre. You can then have a mad Chase scene when the rest of the Orc horde comes over the hill in revenge. Then, you have a cool Social Conflict where you barely convince the Prince that a horde is on its way. He will muster the army in exchange for a service after the battle. Then you can run a Mass Combat in which the PCs influnce the outcome. As a reward, you might gain a title (Noble Edge) and now your campaign completely evolves.

That... is exactly what I want. No matter the genre, that type of chain of events is much more interesting to me than "several big guys, beat them down."

Thanks!