D&D 5E D&D Next Blog - A Close Call with Negative Hit Points

[Jeff Carlsen]

Postulate: A highly useful secondary mechanic for more handling more lethal results should not be any form of "points".

I won't disagree, at least not entirely. I could see a system where you drop to zero, you're wounded. Roll to stay conscious. Roll not to die.

Or any other system. I wouldn't even be against them.

But, my design goal in what I've been proposing is to keep the system we already have with only small changes that make it easier to understand and open it up to greater flexibility.

Thus, changing negative hit points into vital hit points that count down. It's easy to grasp, mathematically identical, and is open to interaction with other mechanics.

 

[Oni]

There was also that it bypassed vitality on a critical hit. That was a bit too swingy.

That would be pretty solvable. For instance you could do something like this.

longsword: 1d8+str Vitality; 19-20 crit 1d4 Wounds
greataxe: 1d12+(1.5 x str) Vitality; 20 crit 2d4 Wounds.
et c.

You just need to make it so Wounds aren't going to be wiped out in one hit.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

That would be pretty solvable. For instance you could do something like this.

longsword: 1d8+str Vitality; 19-20 crit 1d4 Wounds
greataxe: 1d12+(1.5 x str) Vitality; 20 crit 2d4 Wounds.
et c.

You just need to make it so Wounds aren't going to be wiped out in one hit.

Not bad. My thought was a massive damage threshold where any damage taken over that became vital damage. Your option, though, offers an interesting degree of flexibility in weapon design.

 

[JohnSnow]

Not bad. My thought was a massive damage threshold where any damage taken over that became vital damage. Your option, though, offers an interesting degree of flexibility in weapon design.

Agreed.

Of course, the downside is that we now need to specify what level of wound damage each and every monster attack does on a crit.

Not that you couldn't but it strikes me as something of a PITA. And I question the value. One option would be to have crits default to "1/2 damage - direct to wound points."

I just look at it from the perspective of someone who used to play the 1st and 2nd editions of d20 Star Wars which used VP/WP. And I can tell you that bypassing VP on a crit made for some swingy fights. Of course, VP also powered force abilities, so it was a little weird anyway.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Agreed.

Of course, the downside is that we now need to specify what level of wound damage each and every monster attack does on a crit.

You wouldn't have to. It's easy enough to have a default value. In 3.5 it was 20/x2. In this, it could be 20/1d4.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I think the default should shoot for the simplicity of "0 hp = dead" while still softening the brutality a bit.

At zero hit points you are Dying. A Dying character that doesn't receive attention "soon" (keeping in mind that even 10 more rounds of combat in 3E/4E is only a minute) will die. A Dying character that is attacked successfully is Dead.

It stays simple. It allows for tactical choices based on the circumstances of the encounter. It puts lethality levels in the hands of the DM.

The one downside would be the player inactivity while his character is down. But I don't find that rolling death saves in 4E kept me much more engaged anyway. Plus, you can avoid inactivity by striving to play better.

 

[jodyjohnson]

I'd prefer the default be 0 hp = Out of the fight.

Let the nature of the attack, PC actions, narrative goals, etc. determine what "out" means.

KO, dead, petrified, surrendered, subdued, bleeding out, sleeping, diseased, etc.

 

[Rampaging Lawn Gnome]

I'm sure it's been brought up before in debates for a wound system, but separating out wounds from HP could also help balance cases such as falling from a 50 ft cliff. A fall such as this could partly affect wounds rather than simply draining HP and just being a bump to high level PCs.

 

[Mattachine]

Considering how the new core game is going for simplicity and fast combats, I don't see them doing any combination of vitality points/wounds/subsystem for dying, etc.

If anything, that would be a module or a DMG option.

 

[JonWake]

When I've used the Vitality/Wounds option, I've found it to be a bit of a pain in the tuchus, especially when dealing with creatures without a CON score to key off of.