Meh, I have linked XP gain (and more recently level gain, skipping XP altogether) to achieving milestones for years now. The best players will achieve for cheeseball tactics like this is bruises and wasted resources.
D&D 5E Random Encounters in 5E
Meh, I have linked XP gain (and more recently level gain, skipping XP altogether) to achieving milestones for years now. The best players will achieve for cheeseball tactics like this is bruises and wasted resources.
Random encounters made sense prior to 3E, when the only real healing at the party's disposal during the adventuring day was the cleric's. So after the encounter... after the party lost like maybe a handful to a quarter of their HPs... they would have to decide whether the loss was worth the cleric using some of his precious healing on them. If not, then the RE did what it was supposed to and "softened up" the party for what was to come. After all... the party was not going to have the cleric blow his healing on them, then take a rest after this random encounter in order for the cleric to get his healing back... before most likely another random encounter would occur while they were resting.
It was only with the advent of 3E and the item creation feats, that random encounter became pretty well obsolete. There was usually at least one party member who had made or bought one or more Cure Light Wounds wands (since they were extremely cheap)... which meant that after the RE was finished... the party would just blow through however many charges were needed to get them all back to full HP. Thus, all the RE did was blow a relatively infinite resource (wand charges). And when it comes to 4E... that game basically takes the premise of the 50 charges of Cure Light Wounds wands and just bakes them straight into each individual character. So again, a RE doesn't really do anything other than make the party blow some healing surges (which is not as deep a resource as CLW wand charges were, but still tends to get fairly deep all things considered).
The only way Random Encounters serve a meaningful purpose is to not having healing so prevalent that the party can easily heal back to full when its done. They need to be judicious with their minimum amount of healing such that continuing to adventure even though they are down a certain percentage of HP is a valid tactic and something they really need to think about.
It was only with the advent of 3E and the item creation feats, that random encounter became pretty well obsolete. There was usually at least one party member who had made or bought one or more Cure Light Wounds wands (since they were extremely cheap)... which meant that after the RE was finished... the party would just blow through however many charges were needed to get them all back to full HP. Thus, all the RE did was blow a relatively infinite resource (wand charges). And when it comes to 4E... that game basically takes the premise of the 50 charges of Cure Light Wounds wands and just bakes them straight into each individual character. So again, a RE doesn't really do anything other than make the party blow some healing surges (which is not as deep a resource as CLW wand charges were, but still tends to get fairly deep all things considered).
The only way Random Encounters serve a meaningful purpose is to not having healing so prevalent that the party can easily heal back to full when its done. They need to be judicious with their minimum amount of healing such that continuing to adventure even though they are down a certain percentage of HP is a valid tactic and something they really need to think about.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Frankly, I don't see this being correct. I think random encounters were already being phased out of people's styles of play with 2e's emphasis on story event encounters rather than exploration of environments. The shift toward more complex tactical games with 3e and then 4e raised the profile of "the meaningful encounter" even further. Combat took so long that random encounters, for some play styles, simply became too much of a pain in the rear to include, too distracting, too time consuming.
Quickleaf
Legend
I like good random encounters because they evoke exploration.
In my 4e sandbox game I'm using random encounter quite a bit, but I keep combat as just one option (and sometimes not an option at all) and typically make the combats very simple and with lower than normal XP budgets. I also like a mix of evocative and story encounters, that is, I like some random encounters to connect to a major quest the PCs are pursuing.
In my 4e sandbox game I'm using random encounter quite a bit, but I keep combat as just one option (and sometimes not an option at all) and typically make the combats very simple and with lower than normal XP budgets. I also like a mix of evocative and story encounters, that is, I like some random encounters to connect to a major quest the PCs are pursuing.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
Random Encounters in 3.5E: Lessons Learned
Yesterday, I ran a five-hour long D&D gaming session with five other friends. (We are currently playing a 3.5E game, using the core rules and the Frostburn supplement.) This time, however, I put together a few Random Encounter Tables to use with the adventure: one for the overland trip to the ruin, another for the ruin itself, and one for the dungeon beneath the ruin. Pretty standard, for back in the day.
Since the party is made up of five low-level characters (1st & 2nd level), I made sure that nearly all of the creatures on the random encounter tables were EL 1. There were a couple of encounters that were EL 2 with a 10% chance of appearing, and one EL 3 with a 5% chance of appearing. The point of the higher EL encounters? To keep the party guessing, and to reinforce the fact that the area they are traveling through is dangerous, and not a place to get cozy and hang out. In other words, your standard Random Encounter Tables.
The base chance for an encounter was 10%, checked twice daily while traveling overland (and hourly, when they were in the dungeon.) This base chance was modified by +/- 5% based on the party's actions. Moving quietly, not using fire, doubling back to cover their tracks, etc, would reduce the chance by 5%, while carrying light sources, casting noisy spells, bashing down doors, etc., would increase that chance. Again, pretty standard.
The adventure was simple: the local thane has hired the party to clean out a nest of goblins. The nest is a ruined lighthouse on the shore, about 3 days away on foot across open terrain. Your typical 3.5E low-level adventure, except this time, I am using random encounters.
Here's how it shook out.
-----
AWESOME:
It kept the party guessing, it broke up the monotony of overland travel, and it created an air of danger. For the first time in years, the players were discussing things like "it's safer to stay on the roads," "we should avoid the swamp, because that guy at the bar said a black dragon lives there," and "we barely got away...we should warn others that an ogre lives in that cave."
MEDIOCRE:
It really slowed the game down, though. All that extra mystery and roleplaying took its toll on our game time. With each battle taking up between 30 and 45 minutes of our time, we ran out of time before the party could even make it to the dungeon. I'm not saying this is a problem--personally, I think that days-long journeys through wild countryside should be just as memorable as the destination. But not all DMs would agree.
AWFUL:
Combat takes too long, and more combat only makes the problem worse. This is a known issue, so I won't say anything more about it.
More encounters on the road means that the party needs to pack extra provisions and supplies...about 50% more, in fact. More healing potions, more scrolls of magic missile and bless, more arrows, maybe even a spare weapon or two. I think the 3.x and 4E playstyle has spoiled us...nowadays, the players expect to arrive at every dungeon fully-rested and well-stocked with magic, and the dungeon seems to expect it too. But with random encounters thrown into the mix, this never happens.
So the result: the party gets halfway to their destination after a battle or two, decides that their situation is less than ideal, and turns back to get more supplies. Over and over again, until they get lucky and have an encounter-free journey, or (more likely) they go broke buying potions and accept their fate.
-----
So random encounters presents two challenges in the 5E system. The first (and most important, IMO) is the length of combat: more encounters of any kind will slow the game down. Random or scripted, if a battle takes longer than 10-15 minutes under the new system, they need to go back to the drawing board.
But equally important is the dependence on resources. 3.5E is, admittedly, a very magic-dependent game...and 4E isn't much better, what with all of the emphasis on powers, class abilities, and healing surges. (Magic by another name, is still magic.) They need to remove the expectation that the party will start every day refreshed and fully-charged...on both sides of the screen.
Players will need more ways to be resourceful...spells and potions have limited uses, so you must learn to save them for very special occasions. Skill challenges, not superpowers, should be your bread and butter. DMs: you need to cut the players some slack, and anticipate that the party will not be facing each encounter under optimum conditions. If you want the party to clean out the entire dungeon in a single day, you need to make sure that you are using a reasonable number of encounters...random or otherwise. We need to learn to challenge the party with traps, puzzles, and interesting terrain...not wave after wave of goblin soldiers.
Just my two coppers.
Yesterday, I ran a five-hour long D&D gaming session with five other friends. (We are currently playing a 3.5E game, using the core rules and the Frostburn supplement.) This time, however, I put together a few Random Encounter Tables to use with the adventure: one for the overland trip to the ruin, another for the ruin itself, and one for the dungeon beneath the ruin. Pretty standard, for back in the day.
Since the party is made up of five low-level characters (1st & 2nd level), I made sure that nearly all of the creatures on the random encounter tables were EL 1. There were a couple of encounters that were EL 2 with a 10% chance of appearing, and one EL 3 with a 5% chance of appearing. The point of the higher EL encounters? To keep the party guessing, and to reinforce the fact that the area they are traveling through is dangerous, and not a place to get cozy and hang out. In other words, your standard Random Encounter Tables.
The base chance for an encounter was 10%, checked twice daily while traveling overland (and hourly, when they were in the dungeon.) This base chance was modified by +/- 5% based on the party's actions. Moving quietly, not using fire, doubling back to cover their tracks, etc, would reduce the chance by 5%, while carrying light sources, casting noisy spells, bashing down doors, etc., would increase that chance. Again, pretty standard.
The adventure was simple: the local thane has hired the party to clean out a nest of goblins. The nest is a ruined lighthouse on the shore, about 3 days away on foot across open terrain. Your typical 3.5E low-level adventure, except this time, I am using random encounters.
Here's how it shook out.
-----
AWESOME:
It kept the party guessing, it broke up the monotony of overland travel, and it created an air of danger. For the first time in years, the players were discussing things like "it's safer to stay on the roads," "we should avoid the swamp, because that guy at the bar said a black dragon lives there," and "we barely got away...we should warn others that an ogre lives in that cave."
MEDIOCRE:
It really slowed the game down, though. All that extra mystery and roleplaying took its toll on our game time. With each battle taking up between 30 and 45 minutes of our time, we ran out of time before the party could even make it to the dungeon. I'm not saying this is a problem--personally, I think that days-long journeys through wild countryside should be just as memorable as the destination. But not all DMs would agree.
AWFUL:
Combat takes too long, and more combat only makes the problem worse. This is a known issue, so I won't say anything more about it.
More encounters on the road means that the party needs to pack extra provisions and supplies...about 50% more, in fact. More healing potions, more scrolls of magic missile and bless, more arrows, maybe even a spare weapon or two. I think the 3.x and 4E playstyle has spoiled us...nowadays, the players expect to arrive at every dungeon fully-rested and well-stocked with magic, and the dungeon seems to expect it too. But with random encounters thrown into the mix, this never happens.
So the result: the party gets halfway to their destination after a battle or two, decides that their situation is less than ideal, and turns back to get more supplies. Over and over again, until they get lucky and have an encounter-free journey, or (more likely) they go broke buying potions and accept their fate.
-----
So random encounters presents two challenges in the 5E system. The first (and most important, IMO) is the length of combat: more encounters of any kind will slow the game down. Random or scripted, if a battle takes longer than 10-15 minutes under the new system, they need to go back to the drawing board.
But equally important is the dependence on resources. 3.5E is, admittedly, a very magic-dependent game...and 4E isn't much better, what with all of the emphasis on powers, class abilities, and healing surges. (Magic by another name, is still magic.) They need to remove the expectation that the party will start every day refreshed and fully-charged...on both sides of the screen.
Players will need more ways to be resourceful...spells and potions have limited uses, so you must learn to save them for very special occasions. Skill challenges, not superpowers, should be your bread and butter. DMs: you need to cut the players some slack, and anticipate that the party will not be facing each encounter under optimum conditions. If you want the party to clean out the entire dungeon in a single day, you need to make sure that you are using a reasonable number of encounters...random or otherwise. We need to learn to challenge the party with traps, puzzles, and interesting terrain...not wave after wave of goblin soldiers.
Just my two coppers.
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Wednesday Boy
The Nerd WhoFell to Earth
I prefer encounters that GMs put effort into beforehand because they're more often interesting and exciting. In my experience random encounters that are prepared on the fly don't have the depth to make them interesting or exciting.
Radiating Gnome
Adventurer
Travel Skill Challenge (Alternative to Random Encounters)
Here's something I've done in my 4e game several times as an alternative to random encounters during travel sequences.
My idea for travel challenges like this one is based on the idea of a skill challenge. Every success on a specific skill in the challenge represents a specific amount of progress traveling towards a destination. It might be a day's travel, or an hour's travel, or ten minutes of spelunking through caverns.
The number of successes needed to complete the challenge is the number of units of time necessary to complete the journey. There's no need for failures -- failing just means the PCs make no progress ( get lost, etc) and they'll have to try again.
That's pretty simple, and it doesn't get into random encounters or anything else. What I've done, though is taken each unit of time and added a bunch of other skill checks to the challenge.
As an aside: one of the most important things I wanted to do with this whole idea was give the players choices to make. I want them to have to make decisions about who to spread around the party resource, and to make choices about which path they take.
I've created a PDF (attached) that I use for each stage of the journey (multiple stages of the same sort of travel can use the same one, if necessary). The idea is that the PCs put their mini (or some other token) on the skill check they're going to make in each unit of time (they get one -- if you're dealing with smaller parties, though, you might want to give each PC two checks.
There are three sections to the PDF: Primary Skills, Assist Skills, and Secondary skills.
Primary skills are the skills at which the PCs must succeed at. They MUST make a successful check to navigate on their path (the DC might be very easy -- if they're following a well-traveled road -- and it might be hard, if they're trying to pick their way through a misty maze of swampland).
They also need to make a skill check to overcome some sort of hazard -- that might be athletics to get the party up a cliff, or diplomacy to avoid trouble with the locals.
And they need to make a skill check to avoid encounters -- stealth, perhaps, but other skills might used depending upon the setting.
Assist Skills are addition skill checks that can be made to assist the primary skills. So, if the PCs are using stealth to avoid encounters with the local fauna, they might use a Perception check as an assist to make sure they spot the monsters before the monsters have a chance to spot them.
Secondary skills are skills that allow PCs who are not participating in other skill checks during this unit of time to make skill checks to gain some other sort of advantage or resource, depending upon the setting. So, a nature check might reveal some special mushrooms, a thievery check might lead the PCs to a bandit's supply stash, etc.
So, for each leg of their journey, the PCs decide how they want to distribute their characters for the given day's challenge.
The vast majority of those checks have nothing to do with the progress the party is making towards their goal -- but it does make things interesting by giving the PCs a lot of choices to make.
And, here's where you make it even more interesting: Define multiple paths from Point A to Point B, through different settings, populated with different challenges.
So, for example, lets say you want to represent a journey through the wilderness. Your PCs could stick to a cart path that cuts through the area, or they might go off-road through the woods.
1. On the Cart Path:
-the navigation check is a History check (EASY), assisted by Nature. Fail and you make no progress
-the hazard check is an athletics check (moderate) assisted by endurance (fail and lose a healing surge)
-the encounter check is a stealth check (hard, because the monsters are watching the roads) assisted by insight (to get a feeling that you're walking into a trap before it's too late) (fail and you have an encounter (optionally, fail by a lot and the party is ambushed)
Secondary checks could be: Nature (medium: hunt while traveling to get enough food for a day), Diplomacy (hard: out in the wilderness people are slow to trust, but if you succeed you can learn some rumors), and Religion (Medium: you find a shrine along the road and make an offering: you gain one reroll you can use while you are traveling through this forest).
2. Through the Woods
-The navigation check is a Nature check (hard, because it's easy to get lost in these twisty woods) assisted by Endurance (survivalist training)
-the hazard check is an endurance check (the PCs must ford an icy stream: fail and everyone loses a healing surge)
-The encounter check is a stealth check (medium) assisted by perception. Fail and you have an encounter.
Secondary Checks could be: Arcana (hard: sniff out a ley line crossing to gain single use damage boost); Heal (find some herbs you use to brew tea that restores 1 HS to everyone in the party), and Thievery (discover a bandit's cache; gain 3 days food each or some other mundane gear).
To make this work, and be interesting, you probably need not allow PCs to take extended rests until they reach specific locations in their journey (traveler's inns, etc -- which might not be at convenient locations).
What I like about this is it encourages you to really look at/develop the terrain the PCs are traveling through, and even if you only spend a few minutes outlining the terrain and what it's going to take for the PCs to travel through it, you give them some of the flavor. And you can represent all kinds of travel situations with it. For example, if the PCs making the journey above wanted to try taking a sailing ship the long way around (and avoid the dangerous woods), their "navigation" check might be a very easy diplomacy check (just to make sure the Captain of the ship doesn't maroon the PCs), the hazard check might be an endurance check to avoid sea sickness, and the encounter check might be an intimidate check to make sure the sailors on the ship don't get ideas about using the PCs for chum, or dates.
The key, as I said, is choices and variety. Even if they're traveling on roads, those roads go though different territory. Create variations for stages of the journey (one valley infested with goblins, then a ridge where Manticores nest, etc). You might determine the potential encounter in each zone ahead of time (your random roll, if you have a table) -- and that might help you set some DCs (stealth check or whatever is used to evade the encounter).
With the Sheets printed out, you can hand write in skills and DCs, and a quick description of the setting -- organize them into a series and you've got a quick and dirty journey skill challenge.
-rg
Here's something I've done in my 4e game several times as an alternative to random encounters during travel sequences.
My idea for travel challenges like this one is based on the idea of a skill challenge. Every success on a specific skill in the challenge represents a specific amount of progress traveling towards a destination. It might be a day's travel, or an hour's travel, or ten minutes of spelunking through caverns.
The number of successes needed to complete the challenge is the number of units of time necessary to complete the journey. There's no need for failures -- failing just means the PCs make no progress ( get lost, etc) and they'll have to try again.
That's pretty simple, and it doesn't get into random encounters or anything else. What I've done, though is taken each unit of time and added a bunch of other skill checks to the challenge.
As an aside: one of the most important things I wanted to do with this whole idea was give the players choices to make. I want them to have to make decisions about who to spread around the party resource, and to make choices about which path they take.
I've created a PDF (attached) that I use for each stage of the journey (multiple stages of the same sort of travel can use the same one, if necessary). The idea is that the PCs put their mini (or some other token) on the skill check they're going to make in each unit of time (they get one -- if you're dealing with smaller parties, though, you might want to give each PC two checks.
There are three sections to the PDF: Primary Skills, Assist Skills, and Secondary skills.
Primary skills are the skills at which the PCs must succeed at. They MUST make a successful check to navigate on their path (the DC might be very easy -- if they're following a well-traveled road -- and it might be hard, if they're trying to pick their way through a misty maze of swampland).
They also need to make a skill check to overcome some sort of hazard -- that might be athletics to get the party up a cliff, or diplomacy to avoid trouble with the locals.
And they need to make a skill check to avoid encounters -- stealth, perhaps, but other skills might used depending upon the setting.
Assist Skills are addition skill checks that can be made to assist the primary skills. So, if the PCs are using stealth to avoid encounters with the local fauna, they might use a Perception check as an assist to make sure they spot the monsters before the monsters have a chance to spot them.
Secondary skills are skills that allow PCs who are not participating in other skill checks during this unit of time to make skill checks to gain some other sort of advantage or resource, depending upon the setting. So, a nature check might reveal some special mushrooms, a thievery check might lead the PCs to a bandit's supply stash, etc.
So, for each leg of their journey, the PCs decide how they want to distribute their characters for the given day's challenge.
The vast majority of those checks have nothing to do with the progress the party is making towards their goal -- but it does make things interesting by giving the PCs a lot of choices to make.
And, here's where you make it even more interesting: Define multiple paths from Point A to Point B, through different settings, populated with different challenges.
So, for example, lets say you want to represent a journey through the wilderness. Your PCs could stick to a cart path that cuts through the area, or they might go off-road through the woods.
1. On the Cart Path:
-the navigation check is a History check (EASY), assisted by Nature. Fail and you make no progress
-the hazard check is an athletics check (moderate) assisted by endurance (fail and lose a healing surge)
-the encounter check is a stealth check (hard, because the monsters are watching the roads) assisted by insight (to get a feeling that you're walking into a trap before it's too late) (fail and you have an encounter (optionally, fail by a lot and the party is ambushed)
Secondary checks could be: Nature (medium: hunt while traveling to get enough food for a day), Diplomacy (hard: out in the wilderness people are slow to trust, but if you succeed you can learn some rumors), and Religion (Medium: you find a shrine along the road and make an offering: you gain one reroll you can use while you are traveling through this forest).
2. Through the Woods
-The navigation check is a Nature check (hard, because it's easy to get lost in these twisty woods) assisted by Endurance (survivalist training)
-the hazard check is an endurance check (the PCs must ford an icy stream: fail and everyone loses a healing surge)
-The encounter check is a stealth check (medium) assisted by perception. Fail and you have an encounter.
Secondary Checks could be: Arcana (hard: sniff out a ley line crossing to gain single use damage boost); Heal (find some herbs you use to brew tea that restores 1 HS to everyone in the party), and Thievery (discover a bandit's cache; gain 3 days food each or some other mundane gear).
To make this work, and be interesting, you probably need not allow PCs to take extended rests until they reach specific locations in their journey (traveler's inns, etc -- which might not be at convenient locations).
What I like about this is it encourages you to really look at/develop the terrain the PCs are traveling through, and even if you only spend a few minutes outlining the terrain and what it's going to take for the PCs to travel through it, you give them some of the flavor. And you can represent all kinds of travel situations with it. For example, if the PCs making the journey above wanted to try taking a sailing ship the long way around (and avoid the dangerous woods), their "navigation" check might be a very easy diplomacy check (just to make sure the Captain of the ship doesn't maroon the PCs), the hazard check might be an endurance check to avoid sea sickness, and the encounter check might be an intimidate check to make sure the sailors on the ship don't get ideas about using the PCs for chum, or dates.
The key, as I said, is choices and variety. Even if they're traveling on roads, those roads go though different territory. Create variations for stages of the journey (one valley infested with goblins, then a ridge where Manticores nest, etc). You might determine the potential encounter in each zone ahead of time (your random roll, if you have a table) -- and that might help you set some DCs (stealth check or whatever is used to evade the encounter).
With the Sheets printed out, you can hand write in skills and DCs, and a quick description of the setting -- organize them into a series and you've got a quick and dirty journey skill challenge.
-rg
