Top end of +N weapons and armor?

[Grydan]

As I've said before, I'd rather all +n weaponry (and other equipment) went the way of the dodo.

However, I'm well aware that that outcome is unlikely.

Given that it almost certainly will show up in some form, I'd be happiest if it was limited to +1.

I'd be even happier if those +1 items were given actual names, instead of numbers, for flavour purposes. Weapon of Accuracy. Armour of Greater Defence. Something like that.

As far as having a progression in any way tied to level goes, I strongly dislike the idea. It's one of my least favourite aspects of 4th Edition.

As my character increases in skill and power, why should what weapon I carry become more important over time, rather than less?

Take a 1st level character in 4E and strip them of all of their gear and stick them in a prison with guards of level 1 to 3.

Take a 30th level character and strip them of all of their gear, and stick them in a prison with guards of level 25.

Despite the fact that the 30th level character might be quite literally a Demigod, and despite the fact that their guards are five levels below them rather than being of equal or higher level, they're going to be worse off than the 1st level character.

Heck, in this scenario, if you make that 1st level character a cloth-wearing implement-using class, they have lost literally nothing in terms of combat capability. Not 1 point of attack, AC, Fortitude, Reflex, or Will.

At the other extreme, a 30th level heavily armoured weapon user might be losing over 20 points of AC, 8+ points of attack, and 6+ points off of other defences. Opponents 10 levels lower than him would have a hard time missing him in combat. He'll be struggling to even survive, never mind actually defeat any foes.

To me, this seems counter-intuitive. I want my high-level characters to be badasses that use gear because it's convenient, or because it provides some slight edge. Not because they're useless without it.

 

[Szatany]

What if magic weapons don't give +x to hit and damage but instead set your BAB? A weak magic sword would read: your bab is normal or +5, whatever is higher. A high-end artifact-level axe would read: your bab is +20 or your own, whichever is higher.

Same nonstacking rule could be applied to items that boost ability scores. For example, gauntlets of ogre power would set your strength to that of an ogre (say, 18). That way you have powerful items that can't break the math. Sure they aren't useful for everybody, but that's the tradeoff.

 

[Minigiant]

What if magic weapons don't give +x to hit and damage but instead set your BAB? A weak magic sword would read: your bab is normal or +5, whatever is higher. A high-end artifact-level axe would read: your bab is +20 or your own, whichever is higher.

Same nonstacking rule could be applied to items that boost ability scores. For example, gauntlets of ogre power would set your strength to that of an ogre (say, 18). That way you have powerful items that can't break the math. Sure they aren't useful for everybody, but that's the tradeoff.

I'm weary of this solution.

Replacement powers in how CoDzilla got created.

Cleric: I got a +5 sword. Now I'm you plus spells. Go home, fighter.

This might be inadvertently created as core warrior classes might be sacks of HP with a high Attack bonus.

 

[Grydan]

I'm weary of this solution.

Replacement powers in how CoDzilla got created.

Cleric: I got a +5 sword. Now I'm you plus spells. Go home, fighter.

This might be inadvertently created as core warrior classes might be sacks of HP with a high Attack bonus.

All the more reason that warrior classes shouldn't just be sacks of HP with high attack bonuses.

 

[Minigiant]

All the more reason that warrior classes shouldn't just be sacks of HP with high attack bonuses.

But some people want that.
Core sameness is my biggest fear, man.

 

[Szatany]

I'm weary of this solution.

Replacement powers in how CoDzilla got created.

Cleric: I got a +5 sword. Now I'm you plus spells. Go home, fighter.

This might be inadvertently created as core warrior classes might be sacks of HP with a high Attack bonus.

This is different from powers because characters have easy access to powers but they don't have DM-controlled access to magic items.
Hopefully the game is created in such a way that attack bonus alone is just a small part of character's overall combat effectiveness. If so, cleric with attack equal to fighter's will not be imba, no more than a cleric with extra 30 hp.

 

[StarFyre]

As most things here, i vote for unlimited. Why? it should be up to the DM.

REmember, the most important thing beyond ANY rules, balance, etc is FUN.
If people are having fun, the rules mean nothing.

If you have to hack the rules apart and house rule it to make it fun, so be it.

Thus, some players like collecting items even if they don't do much in the game (trust me on that!), others want powerful items as they get more powerful.

I think the system should support it (albeit at the highest level tiers) without having to just house rule it (if possible).

Sanjay

 

[Minigiant]

This is different from powers because characters have easy access to powers but they don't have DM-controlled access to magic items.
Hopefully the game is created in such a way that attack bonus alone is just a small part of character's overall combat effectiveness. If so, cleric with attack equal to fighter's will not be imba, no more than a cleric with extra 30 hp.

The problem is powers probably won't be core.
In order to make 1e and 2e fans happy, the fighter will probably just be a bigger sack of HPs.

But I think this could be fix with Designer based suggestions of modules.

"Warriors and You. PHB. Page 50:

The core versions of the cleric, paladin, and warlord have similar attack bonuses and hit points of the fighter but have additional class features that can overshadow the fighter. It is suggest that you use one or two modules to help keep the fighter class balanced with its peers. Use the Enhanced Magic Weapon and Armor module (pg 103) to make fighters more dangerous when wielding an enchanted blade. Use the Martial Powers module to togive fighters more extraordinary attacks. Use the Uncapped Ability modules to..."