• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

Comparing Pathfinder and 4th Edition for 5Next

Status
Not open for further replies.
You want to know the real difference between PF and 4E?

If these message boards are any indication... there are a heck of a lot more PF players pissed off at WotC for creating a game they don't like than there are 4E players pissed off at Paizo for creating a game they don't like.

4E seems to be treated as a personal affront to the players who don't want to play it, whereas PF is treated as a 'yeah, whatever, have fun with that' to the 4E players. ;)
 

log in or register to remove this ad

You want to know the real difference between PF and 4E?

If these message boards are any indication... there are a heck of a lot more PF players pissed off at WotC for creating a game they don't like than there are 4E players pissed off at Paizo for creating a game they don't like.

4E seems to be treated as a personal affront to the players who don't want to play it, whereas PF is treated as a 'yeah, whatever, have fun with that' to the 4E players. ;)

And, based on some of the discussions around here, it appears that a portion of 4e fans seem to also be taking D&DNext tidbits as a personal affront as well. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
 

And, based on some of the discussions around here, it appears that a portion of 4e fans seem to also be taking D&DNext tidbits as a personal affront as well. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

You are absolutely correct.
 

aye

they see the writing on the wall, and it does not bode well for 4e. I like 4e, but LOVE PF. I mean, the archetypes, the rebalancing, the skill system, the combat maneuver system, it feels like you're not railroaded.

4e might be easier for DMs to roll out and execute a combat encounter, but from the 5-6 DMs I've played with, 4 were just playing the modules, which we all agreed were mostly of terrible quality and had no contiguity (an artefact of the system or a result of just poor writing...who can tell?), and the other two, who tried and gave up to make a believable game setting, found themselves frustrated with the combat-centricity of it, and how players would get bored with their characters because outside of combat, they were generally rather dull in comparison. Just looking at the massive character sheets in 4e is enough. How much space is devoted to skills in either one? I consider the fact that you're better off with custom character sheet templates for each class a feature, not a bug, not to mention the fact that everyone who made their own characters in 4e, from scratch, by hand, had tons of misc modifiers they weren't adding in right, and having to up all your stats every two levels, changing your powers a lot means wasting tons of ink. I can go through many levels in a PF game with the same sheet. Try that, and weep.

But, I'll say this : 4e did a number of things well : ranger's twin strike, (maybe it should have been -2, -2, to keep it slightly balanced), or iron armbands could have benefitted a sword and board fighter with +2 dmg with his sword AND +2 AC, or a two-handed fighter/barb/pally +4 to damage because he's using both hands. The problem with all those things is that the community was not allowed to fix the game. The second they went to online builder, they should have allowed community-driven houserules, such as free expertise (or none), fixing broken items, boosting poor items, purging others, pumping up lame powers or toning down OP ones. This could all have been done with a few tweaks and voila, shareable centralised house rules which would have allowed the system the thrive. Right now, it's dead. Check the char op boards, that's where the life of a system lies. It's almost completely dead there. And why? Why could they just not pump out more epic adventures while they wait, or hire some third parties to do it? Easy money.

I will pay for, and play DDN, but I would have loved to been able to modify 4e to be more realistic, e.g. you have 4 at-wills, choices of encounter powers at each level to use each encounter depending on the situation, fixed items, and a complete revamp of the skill system, which to this day, aside from rituals, is a complete flop. Rituals suck so bad in 4e, people rarely take them. And when they do, they just break the silly railroaded adventure structure just the same as any vancian wizard could do in earlier games.
 

OTOH Paizo fanboys are one of the most annoying things in the known universe, and have personally made me swear never to give Paizo a dime just to spite them.
Is it working? Do Paizo fanboys approach you at conventions full of anger at you? Or have they even noticed?

This is a bit like saying "I will never eat chocolate because everyone says it's sooooo delicious. Take that, chocolate lovers!"
 

OTOH Paizo fanboys are one of the most annoying things in the known universe, and have personally made me swear never to give Paizo a dime just to spite them.

Oh noes! S'ok. I'll go spend some more on well written modules for a great game and make up for it.

Silly Grogn4rds.
 

Is it working? Do Paizo fanboys approach you at conventions full of anger at you? Or have they even noticed?

This is a bit like saying "I will never eat chocolate because everyone says it's sooooo delicious. Take that, chocolate lovers!"
Oh it's fun. They keep making posts that insist that I'm missing out on something.

I've actually played it a few times, and while it's an interesting redo of 3.5E it's not anything more than a cute curiosity.
 

Oh it's fun. They keep making posts that insist that I'm missing out on something.

I've actually played it a few times, and while it's an interesting redo of 3.5E it's not anything more than a cute curiosity.

Based on the numbers...they don't seem to be missing your sales. Maybe you should buy some more 4e stuff and help them try and catch up.
 

I was excited when D&D4e was announced and got both of the pre-release design handbooks and agreed with most what was written there.

That said I was disappointed when Paizo announced that it would not support 4e because I EXCLUSIVELY GMed Dungeon and Adventure Path Adventures.

Still we abandoned 3.5 and started 4e in our weekly campaign (which is in its 20th year now).

I liked the ease with which I could GM but I hated the adventure modules. I felt the focus was mainly on combat with not alot of immersive background.

My players felt so too - they hated that the characters powers were almost 100% only usable in combat. Out of combat you felt like an ordinary guy/gal.

So we switched to Pathfinder when it released and it brought "the old feeling" back. While I would have liked some more changes I understood that their main goal was backwards compatibility which they archieved nicely (and yes, that ment they didn't really fix 3.5 but we never felt like it was broken anyways).

So what will make and break 5e for us?

The second that I read in the description of a spell that you might shift 1 square I will not touch 5e. I want my focus on telling cool stories and I want the characters to feel like heroes. Being able to fly 20 squares or dominate a peasant for likely 6 seconds maximum is neither.
 

Agreed...

I nearly lost it when I realized at level 12, after three years of playing my dragonborn, that the at-will "flight" I was looking forward to, was nothing more than a fancy chicken-hop. Our DM too, was like, shaking his head : this is lame.

Please Wotc, no spells with "+you can shift" in their descriptions. It just encourages / forces more combat-only tunnel vision. If anything, I'd prefer less initiative rolls / distinction between combat and non-combat, not more. E.g. if I'm standing next to a guard, and stab him in the back. Bam, combat starts, with my action. Why is initiative needed? Why should there be the "surprise round". Just re-act to what I did, in the round I did it, after me. How does it make sense for the rogue to go before I did, if I'm the one who began things? I absolutely hate having my suprising, bold actions, constantly foiled (not just in 4e, but PF too), by the surprise round. You do something surprising that starts combat? Done, it starts now, everyone else reacts, in some ordering fashion, but I should be first in this case.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top