Converting Al-Qadim creatures

[Cleon]

Yes, let's stick to that for the languages.

But I'm still not happy about the arbitrary deflection bonus. When we can give a rationale for something, we should do so. So why not just bump the Cha

I don't see why we need any rationale more elaborate that the semi-ethereal SQ gives it a +3 deflection bonus against material attacks.

Indeed, I'm not that fond of Charisma 14. If they're ordinary souls with ordinary intelligence scores, shouldn't they have ordinary Charisma scores too? I'd be just as happy with Cha 10-11.

A hama isn't a creature that's clawed it's way back from the grave by sheer force of will like a Revenant, It's just the "natural" form of a deceased soul in the Al-Qadim milieu.

and give it Unearthly Grace like a nymph? If we're overpowering it relative to HD, like a grig, there's not much harm in bumping the DC on the appearance.

But that would give it +3 on its AC and its saves. It's already got all-good saves for being an Outsider, and there's nothing about them having superior saves in the original text.

 

[freyar]

I'd argue that they're already too exception-based and getting, as Shade put it earlier, "overly complex for 1HD creatures." Semi-ethereal is odd enough as it is. If you both want to stick with this without tying the deflection bonus to Cha, Semi-ethereal needs to state it explicitly. At least a line about hama gaining a deflection bonus vs material plane attackers. Perhaps making it equal to 1-1/2 Cha? Even a ghost's deflection bonus is tied to Cha.

But I'd argue that high Cha is fine for these. They are spirits torn from their bodies under unusual circumstances and are single-minded in their goals. This is very similar to most ghosts, which get +4 Cha.

Frankly, I think these would work much better as "reverse ghosts," normally manifest but able to become incorporeal. I also like them better as undead with turning immunity than outsiders (the spirit subtype can apply to undead). Like I said, though, this conversion kind of got going without me.

I think I need to insist on tying the deflection bonus to Cha, like a ghost, though. That's the clear precedent.

 

[Shade]

Frankly, I think these would work much better as "reverse ghosts," normally manifest but able to become incorporeal. I also like them better as undead with turning immunity than outsiders (the spirit subtype can apply to undead). Like I said, though, this conversion kind of got going without me.

Good idea! I'm tempted to start over, and allow Cleon to save the rest for the Cleon Special (TM).

I think I need to insist on tying the deflection bonus to Cha, like a ghost, though. That's the clear precedent.

Let's make that work.

 

[Cleon]

Good idea! I'm tempted to start over, and allow Cleon to save the rest for the Cleon Special (TM).

You just can't cope with My Specialness!™

Let's make that work.

So Freyar, do you want to hold on the Hama until Shade's back from his hols?

We've got plenty of other monsters to fuss over!

 

[freyar]

Heh, waiting might be a good idea.

Are you really set on making these Outsiders? If so, we could just do two versions while Shade is away.

 

[Cleon]

Heh, waiting might be a good idea.

We might as well, then.

Are you really set on making these Outsiders? If so, we could just do two versions while Shade is away.

Yes, I think of them as more Petitioners than Ghosts.

 

[freyar]

OK, we'll wait and maybe do an undead version then.

Would you agree to saying the deflection bonus is 1-1/2 Cha?

 

[Cleon]

OK, we'll wait and maybe do an undead version then.

Would you agree to saying the deflection bonus is 1-1/2 Cha?

Eh?

I thought we were leaving this until Shade got back.

If we're waiting shouldn't we wait!

 

[freyar]

Just trying to forge a consensus. Otherwise, Shade and I will have to outvote you.

 

[Cleon]

Just trying to forge a consensus. Otherwise, Shade and I will have to outvote you.

I'll just Cleon Special™ you if you refuse to recognize my genius.