Close Burst 1 - when is it not a close burst ??

[Istar]

Do you take the flavor text into account when working out if an enemy is affected by a close burst attack.

For example the warden encounter power "Burst of Earth's Fury" which is a burst 1 (and that is up as well as horizontal) that has the text description "..causing the earth to toss and churn s if from an earthquake".

The target cannot shift unti the end of my next turn.

But if creature is flying, does the flavor overide the burst 1 ??

So an enemy flying in the burst 1, as he is not touching the ground, not be affected, the warden cant attack and the enemy is not affected by the not being able to shift ??

 

[mcmillan]

Strictly following the rules it should still work against a flying creature. I suppose you could describe it as a shockwave or debris that gets thrown up.

I want to say I've come across powers that explicitly state they don't affect flying creatures, though I can't place any right now.

 

[Unwise]

As a general rule, I feel it is the goal of the DM and players to make the flavour match the mechanics. So in this instance, the ground shakes so violently that some rocks fly 8 feet up, striking the low hovering monster.

I am yet to find this to be a hassle in D&D, I think everything is pretty explainable.

 

[S'mon]

As a general rule, I feel it is the goal of the DM and players to make the flavour match the mechanics. So in this instance, the ground shakes so violently that some rocks fly 8 feet up, striking the low hovering monster.

I am yet to find this to be a hassle in D&D, I think everything is pretty explainable.

I find this approach too destroying of immersion - too 'gamey' - eg in your example, flying rocks would do damage and be a lot more powerful than the described power. So I find it's best to insert in necessary line to make the mechanics match the flluff, so in this case "does not affect flying flying creatures". Likewise I'll insert a line on ooze stat blocks "cannot be knocked prone".

 

[Unwise]

That's an interesting take on it.

I would say that when imagining an imaginary rock, it would be reasonable for it to do exactly the amount of damage you envisage it to. It's only the theatre of your mind that is deciding if it is a huge boulder propelled from a volcano, or a pebble flicked by a passing horse.

Even in the example of the ooze being knocked prone, I just see it as an opportunity for the PC to describe a cool action.

"The winds from the frost storm descend on it, flattening it against the floor. A layer of ice forms upon it. It struggles to regain its previous shape"

"I throw all my weight behind the power strike, overbalance and end up body slamming it as well. It flattens like a water-bed as I bounce off it"

"The dagger slices a gash near its base. It spills out a super slippery vile liquid. It can't seem to gain traction. Whatever membrane it contracts to move has been severed for now"

I had a game recently where our Scout was regularly knocking a snake prone and/or immobilising it. That had some pretty cool descriptions in it. He ended up pinning its lower jaw to the floor with his boot. Later on he got a critical that immobilised it. He ran it through with his weapon, nailing it to the floor.

Our tempest fighter uses a spiked chain, that lends itself to some pretty cool descriptions of slides, prones and immobilises too.

<edit> Some powers like blinding barrage really do have odd descriptions that annoy me too. Throwing a knife into the forehead of 9 people at once making them bleed into the eyes is very far fetched for heroic tier.

 

[Incenjucar]

Certain WotC designers seem to be in the habit of ignoring the third dimension... That said, there are powers that specifically affect targets that are on the ground, such as the Genasi "Earthshock" power that has a target of "Enemies in the burst that are touching the ground."

 

[Nichwee]

I find this approach too destroying of immersion - too 'gamey' - eg in your example, flying rocks would do damage and be a lot more powerful than the described power. So I find it's best to insert in necessary line to make the mechanics match the flluff, so in this case "does not affect flying flying creatures". Likewise I'll insert a line on ooze stat blocks "cannot be knocked prone".

I have never liked this approach myself.
"Too gamey" is just another way of saying, "I don't get how that works". And that just means it is freaky. All magic is too gamey if you insist on real world physics, all uber combat is too unrealistic too.

YMMV but I generally look at a power that seems "wrong" as a chance to stretch the imagination of the players a bit (which I feel is the point of an RPG).

Plus, I worry that going with the arguement "But sense says that can't work this time because ...." will just result in all players going with pure damage powers for fear that their "brilliantly cool power" will be useless 50% of the time because the DM doesn't like the feel of how it is used in some case.
I would rather have small stones flung upward once in a while than have players ignore every cool power that has anything but pure "I smacked it" involved.

 

[Istar]

Some very interesting points and views on this guys, cheers for that.

I would too have thought, that shock waves and debris from the ground such as wind turbulance, could easily injure and disturb the flying creature.

 

[Nichwee]

<edit> Some powers like blinding barrage really do have odd descriptions that annoy me too. Throwing a knife into the forehead of 9 people at once making them bleed into the eyes is very far fetched for heroic tier.

I decided to look at this power and think about how it would work.
Lets assume that it is targeting 3 mobs, 1 granting combat advantage.

What happened?:

IC
"I reach into a puch on my belt and grab up a handful of caltrops/shrapnal as well as my dagger. I note one of the guys near me is off balance so as I fling the shrapnal in an arcing sweep I also let the dagegr go at the off balance guy. He gets a face full of shrapnal as well as my dagger in his shoulder while he reacts to the pain of bits slicing up his eyes. The guy behind him also gets screwed up by the shrapnal cutting into his eyes and face, while the last guy just turns his head in time and gets a few scratches."

OOC
The guy granting CA got hit and took fulll damage, was blinded and took sneak damage. One guy got hit, took full damage and was blinded. The last guy was missed so took half damage only.

 

[Ryujin]

I refuse to gimp players based solely on flavour text. The power is the power and you alter the flavour somewhat, to suit the situation. Anything other than that can result in badwrongfun.