Advantages / Disadvantages

[howandwhy99]

Good
It's very fast. 2 dice can be rolled & read almost as quickly as 1.

It simplifies the "Modifier Game" to +1/-1. Rolls are either advantageous, disadvantageous, or a wash.

It's elegant. It adds a whole lot of complexity - the curvilinear results relationship - with little complication.

It's broadly applicable. It works for any single die roll not only 1d20+mod rolls.

Bad
Dice pools weren't liked 30 years ago as the complexity was felt to be in the wrong place. Knowing the odds became difficult and often unintuitive. Knowing the odds prior to a roll would now be very difficult without a matrix in front of the player demonstrating the relationship.

The "Modifier Game" is short-circuited from gaining every possible advantage to looking for any one advantage each time.

The change in odds is very significant making this something of an all or nothing benefit or hindrance.

 

[slobster]

Dice pools weren't liked 30 years ago as the complexity was felt to be in the wrong place. Knowing the odds became difficult and often unintuitive. Knowing the odds prior to a roll would now be very difficult without a matrix in front of the player demonstrating the relationship.

I don't think it's as bad as all that. Dice pools can be confusing when you have tradeoffs that need to be made. Should I full attack and get another 2 dice? Or should I feint and get a +1 to all my dice results? Which gives me better odds? Time to bust out the calculator . . .

With advantage it's binary, and it's always good to get it. So you don't need to know that attacking from surprise will give you a 24% better chance to hit, and 4.75% better chance to crit. You just need to know that attacking with surprise=combat advantage=good.

I agree with all your other points; spot on.

 

[Lalato]

I don't understand the rolling 12 times argument. Do you only own one d20?

 

[EmbraCraig]

I like the mechanic - my only worry is that, since I played an Avenger in 4E for a bit, I know how powerful rolling 2 dice and picking the higher is.

How much of an issue that turns out to be depends a lot on how character advancement pans out - if there are as many ways of gaining Advantage in Next as your average 4E rogue had ways of getting combat advantage, it could be completely over the top.

On the other hand, it gives me hope that the DND Next Avenger theme will be simple to implement and work in the same way as the 4E Avenger which I liked so much

 

[IronWolf]

I suspect that the reason they don't have advantages stack is to keep players from seeking out every possible advantage they can. Once you've got advantage, go for it. Speeds play.

Good thought and I believe you are right, it would likely speed play up a bit by not needing to scratch for every advantage, you either have it or you don't. Might make decision making a little faster at the table.

 

[Invisible Stalker]

It's quick and fun for now, but I think this one will need a lot of play testing at many kinds of levels. I suspect I'll see an advantage/ disadvantage chart at some point, because I just don't think the "that kobold's one disadvantage cancels out my five advantages???" is going to fly very well.

 

[IronWolf]

It's quick and fun for now, but I think this one will need a lot of play testing at many kinds of levels. I suspect I'll see an advantage/ disadvantage chart at some point, because I just don't think the "that kobold's one disadvantage cancels out my five advantages???" is going to fly very well.

Am I missing a finer point of the rules? If the player has five things going for him that the GM thinks gives the player advantage, why isn't the player getting advantage?

Or maybe I am misreading your example?

 

[Invisible Stalker]

Am I missing a finer point of the rules? If the player has five things going for him that the GM thinks gives the player advantage, why isn't the player getting advantage?

Or maybe I am misreading your example?

Bad example on my part, I just think there will be an outcry to get the advantage system ratios locked down (with a chart) and not be left to DM judgement.

 

[IronWolf]

Bad example on my part, I just think there will be an outcry to get the advantage system ratios locked down (with a chart) and not be left to DM judgement.

I hope not. Charts add complexity. Charts usually aren't memorized so people feel required to open the rulebook or consult the DM's screen to look up some rule. For Advantage/Disadvantage I think for it to work the decision needs made quickly and will frequently need the DM's judgment call.

If the issue at hand is the DM having trouble making judgment calls, I would rather see more materials released to help the DM learn this skill than more time spent codifying decisions such as this.

 

[jadrax]

I really like the advantage system right now, but the argument about using it with a lot of monsters has merit.

I will see how it works with the kobold encounters. Since they have a solid way to get advantage and there are lots of them, we should be able to see if the extra rolling is too much.

'Suggestion for handling lots of creatures that have advantage - roll all attacks at once, re-roll only the misses.'

-Note that this idea was all my own genius and in no way cut and paste from the twitter feed of Mike Mearls.