In the heat of battle, is hit point loss a wound?

[Uller]

To me the problem is that 8 hours is almost literally nothing. It's the time you spend asleep. Even one full day of rest (two nights) would be massively better.

I have exactly the same problem with the wizard and cleric. It's the time you spend asleep plus a token amount of time while everyone else is cooking breakfast/striking the tent. The wizard and cleric get given their spells just for shirking chores.

That's what you effectively have. You can't have more than one rest in any given24 hour period. So if your party start a rest at 10pm, they can't start another unitl 10 pm the next evening.

In the game I played last night th pcs fought an encounter at 9pm, rested then exploed a ruin starting at 8am. After 4 encounters (and accidentally releasing a vampire into the world) they decided to rest again. But its only 10 am. So they have to safely hole up for 12 hours before they even begin their rest. In that time the villains can take actions to prepare defenses and even start to work against the pcs. Its short enough to keep the game moving and long enough to allow npcs to adjust to the latest actions of the pcs.

In my experience 24 hours is a pretty good time frame for the adventure environment to adjust. When you start talking weeks its effectively a new adventure

 

[Aenghus]

Its more a question of "I want the PCs to be hack&slash machines who clear dungeons non stop" or "I want PCs to be (very powerful) humans who still need resting and down time between adventures and thus have to manage the "resource" healing and time.

That's negative and inaccurate language for the style you don't like and more positive language for the one you do. Which isn't a good way to win any converts, or encourage reasonable debate..

An action-adventure style of game with a lower mortality rate is a perfectly fine style of play, even if it isn't to your taste.

Just as a style with more danger and more hp management is a valid style, even if it is no longer to my taste.

I do think something closer to former is more accessible to new players though, and the hobby needs new players.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Its more a question of "I want the PCs to be hack&slash machines who clear dungeons non stop" or "I want PCs to be (very powerful) humans who still need resting and down time between adventures and thus have to manage the "resource" healing and time.

And this is why I want a few paragraphs on setting the extended rest dial. If you have everything major connected to a long rest, it's trivial to houserule what a long rest is to change the feel of the game to the one you want. I don't honestly care much about what the default value for the length of a long rest is - I care that it's set cleanly enough to houserule into a gaming style I like

 

[Uller]

Its more a question of "I want the PCs to be hack&slash machines who clear dungeons non stop" or "I want PCs to be (very powerful) humans who still need resting and down time between adventures and thus have to manage the "resource" healing and time.

Thanks for making my point....

 

[Derren]

An action-adventure style of game with a lower mortality rate is a perfectly fine style of play, even if it isn't to your taste.

This has nothing to do with mortality, at least not directly. It has to do with the PCs being able to clear dungeons non stop by just resting for a night or by having to manage their health and healing resources because they have no way to fully heal without magic while in enemy territory.

 

[Uller]

An action-adventure style of game with a lower mortality rate is a perfectly fine style of play, even if it isn't to your taste.

Just as a style with more danger and more hp management is a valid style, even if it is no longer to my taste.

I think the higher danger is with the former. As a DM, I tend to feel I can really beat the crap out of the PCs and force them to their limits knowing that even if I drop one or two into dirt nap status they will be back in the game soon. So I don't hold back on what the monsters do. That leads to tougher fights and more pc death

 

[Uller]

This has nothing to do with mortality, at least not directly. It has to do with the PCs being able to clear dungeons non stop by just resting for a night or by having to manage their health and healing resources because they have no way to fully heal without magic while in enemy territory.

Again...I served in combat in the infantry. I assure you....no one gets any real rest in "enemy territory". If your players are finding places to get that kind of rest in the middle of an active enemy stronghold its either because you built a place into the adventure for them to do that or they are very skilled at hiding and securing themselves.

On a rare occasion the pcs become desperate enough to try that make them earn it if you want it to be a challenge for them.

 

[Aenghus]

This has nothing to do with mortality, at least not directly. It has to do with the PCs being able to clear dungeons non stop by just resting for a night or by having to manage their health and healing resources because they have no way to fully heal without magic while in enemy territory.

Now I think of it, the slow healing game isn't a good match for plot-based games with time limits such as "save the princess". A quicker recover game suits this sort of premise better,as the players aren't forced to choose between stopping to rest (which can be acting out of character) or pressing ahead while too weak and probably losing. Slow healing doesn't fit a more dramatic genre, and that genre doesn't result in a party that mechanically hacks through dungeons, as they have more personal and plot based motivations.

Whereas I can see slower healing and hp management can be a better fit for more player driven games, depending on tastes in the group concerned.

The can't be a "one size fits all" answer to this conundorum.

 

[Herschel]

In the heat of battle, decapitation is a wound. Everything else is abstract.

 

[Derren]

Again...I served in combat in the infantry. I assure you....no one gets any real rest in "enemy territory". If your players are finding places to get that kind of rest in the middle of an active enemy stronghold its either because you built a place into the adventure for them to do that or they are very skilled at hiding and securing themselves.

On a rare occasion the pcs become desperate enough to try that make them earn it if you want it to be a challenge for them.

And yet when they succeded, were all the wounded in the unit suddenly be able to fight at 100% again?
i admit I skipped the draft so I can't speak from experience, but lets take for example the events in Mogadishu (Blackhawk Down). They had wounded personell and managed to hole themselves up for a night. In D&D that means that the wounded would be combat ready again the next day. Also there will certainly be magic which makes resting pretty easy (rope trick etc.) Even 4E had it.

Now I think of it, the slow healing game isn't a good match for plot-based games with time limits such as "save the princess". A quicker recover game suits this sort of premise better,as the players aren't forced to choose between stopping to rest (which can be acting out of character) or pressing ahead while too weak and probably losing. Slow healing doesn't fit a more dramatic genre, and that genre doesn't result in a party that mechanically hacks through dungeons, as they have more personal and plot based motivations.

Whereas I can see slower healing and hp management can be a better fit for more player driven games, depending on tastes in the group concerned.

The can't be a "one size fits all" answer to this conundorum.

And why is that a problem? When the quest has a strict time limit it just becomes another obstacle to overcome. The PCs have to press on even when not at full HP or with some empty spell slots. That imo adds challenge to the game and also makes it more believable than full healing after a nights sleep even when you were knocked below 0 several times the last day without any form of supernatural intervention.