Cards as randomizers?

[Asmor]

Decks have to be shuffled, which ends up being an interruption to game play. Specialized decks (non-standard cards) add a cost/entry fee to new players. And probably need to be shuffled often enough to negate any randomization balancing.

This is one of the bigger issues, but it's easily solved (assuming a communal deck) by using two decks, one active and the other shuffled. When you need to change up, switch to the active and have whoever just went (so they have time before their next round) shuffle the old deck. Bam, 0 down time.

There are a couple issues with cards that have to be at least considered. First, if you use it for everything, it's easy to game the system. Just keep making frivolous checks until you get the deck "loaded". On the flipside, if everyone's using the same deck, then it's just as likely all those high cards might be drawn by the enemies instead of the PCs. So probably not an issue, just be aware of it. And in general, I'd recommend being a lot more strict on the whole 'only roll when the consequences of failure matter' rule.

Another issue is predictability. Smoothing the randomness a bit is nice, but you probably don't want it getting too predictable. I really like what Savage Worlds does for initiative, where if you draw a joker you get a bonus and then the deck is reshuffled. I'd definitely recommend keeping that rule, as it means you always have a chance of getting a good draw and you never really know when the deck's going to be re-shuffled.

Finally, just as a matter of practicality, you can easily make the deck into a pseudo-d20 by taking out all the face cards. Ace through 10 are face value, and if the card's red you add 10. I'd still leave the jokers in, and I'd even go so far as making the jokers into 20s.

 

[IstraRaugir]

While the OP and responses have mostly been focusing on cards replacing dice. I'd like to point out that card randomizers can be usefull and fun if used in other ways as well. One of the better known examples is the critcal hit/fumble deck. Simply put when something interesting happens you pull a card to see what it is. I can honestly see this being applied for all manner of game functions. Random encounters, magic/interesting treasure just to name a few. This way is a lot quicker than rolling various percentile dice and the looking up what happens, you just draw a card that says it on the front (potentially with pretty pictures ).
Perhaps not entirely on topic but just my 2 cents for you to think about.
Cheers.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

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[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

a side question: Why cards?

For variation, in part. Everyone knows to roll a dice. "Pick a card, any card... no not that one" add some verity to the play.

 

[Croesus]

a side question: Why cards?

Another feature of using cards is that it is pretty much impossible to cheat (player) or fudge (GM). That can be a good thing or not, depending on one's point of view.

 

[Umbran]

Another feature of using cards is that it is pretty much impossible to cheat (player) or fudge (GM).

Well, that's just untrue.

Most modern rpg gamers haven't developed the slight-of hand skill required to cheat with cards, but that's just because we all use dice, not because learning is all that difficult. All it takes to palm a card, or fake a cut or poker-shuffle is a little bit of practice. Give players the motivation, and they can learn.

And I run Deadlands regularly, and I deal my cards behind the screen that hides my notes - I can fudge until the cows come home!

 

[Croesus]

Well, that's just untrue.

Most modern rpg gamers haven't developed the slight-of hand skill required to cheat with cards, but that's just because we all use dice, not because learning is all that difficult. All it takes to palm a card, or fake a cut or poker-shuffle is a little bit of practice. Give players the motivation, and they can learn.

And I run Deadlands regularly, and I deal my cards behind the screen that hides my notes - I can fudge until the cows come home!

Well, I suppose I should have said it pretty much eliminates casual cheating/fudging.

For example, if the GM really wants to fudge, he can. But it would be pretty obvious if the GM starts going through the deck to pull out the card he wants. And hiding certain cards behind the screen "just in case" seems a bit too premeditated for the GM's I've gamed with. Fudging die rolls is easy, doing so with cards requires more effort, assuming the GM doesn't want to be obvious.

As for players, there a many easy ways to cheat with a die - knock a die sideways, or say "that was just a practice roll", or roll the die then announce that the result was their check (or if the roll is low, pick it up and announce that they are now rolling their check), and so forth. What all of those have in common is that they don't really require any skill, and very little effort. They are also the kind of temptation that a player who is normally honest can occasionally give in to.

A player who would go to the extreme of learning to deal off the bottom of the deck, stealing and hiding cards while everyone is getting snacks, or other such antics - that crosses a line for me and I wouldn't play with such a person. I play with friends, so we cut each other a lot of slack, but some cheating is simply too over-the-top.

A lot depends on how the cards are used. When we play SW, the deck stays on the table, in clear view. We deal out initiative cards face up. Unless we're talking a card shark here, it's pretty difficult to cheat or fudge. To the extent that the deck is hidden by GM or anyone else, the possibilities for cheating/fudging go up.

 

[Umbran]

And hiding certain cards behind the screen "just in case" seems a bit too premeditated for the GM's I've gamed with.

That I don't see. I run my game at a dining table. There's a player just a foot or so from my elbow. I need a screen to keep my notes from being clearly visible to players, which we all agree would be undesirable.

Rolling my dice or putting my cards in front of the screen (where I could not see them while sitting down, or even standing!) would be a bloody nuisance, making the physical process of running the game notably awkward and difficult. Nobody's going to think keeping my dice and cards behind the screen is a premeditated attempt to allow me to fudge results.

 

[Achan hiArusa]

Dragonlance 5th age and the Marvel Superheroes Adventure game used a system that was called SAGA long before Star Wars did. I had a variation of it I had written sometime ago to use a normal card deck. I can't find the file right now, but off the top of my head...

The deck is a partial standard card deck with some of the royalty taken out, but with the jokers kept (you might want to use two decks). The remaining royalty and jokers form a "fear", "doom", or "dragon" suit that will be explained later. Throw out the clubs:

Red Joker = 11
King of Spades = 10
Queen of Spades = 9
Jack of Spades = 8
King of Diamonds = 7
Queen of Diamonds = 6
Jack of Diamonds = 5
King of Hearts = 4
Queen of Hearts = 3
Jack of Hearts = 2
Black Joker = 1

The other cards are Ace to 10, with aces having a value of one.

Trumps, each suit is keyed to certain ability scores. If you draw this suit when making a related check you get to draw a second card, if that is also trump you get to draw another card and so on (but Royalty Cards and Jokers are never trump despite the suit):

Suit/Trump for
Spades/Dexterity
Diamonds/Intelligence or Wisdom
Clubs/Strength
Hearts/Charisma or Constitution

Hand size: You start with a hand-size of 2 at 1st level, every 3rd level (3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18) you gain an additional card added to your hand. Cards must be played from your hand and once you have played a card (or cards if you have trump) it is discarded and you draw cards to refill back to your hand size. If you use a joker or royalty card the DM takes it and saves it for later to benefit a monster (adding its value to a check they may make in the future at a critical moment).

Edge: In addition to increasing in level, you gain Edge. Your edge is is your handsize minus two (so from 0 to 5). If you draw a card that is equal to or lower than the value of your Edge you get a redraw from your hand until you run out of cards or play a card higher than your Edge. And you may still draw trumps.

Pushing: You may play an extra card which represents extra effort. However, if you do so then you cannot draw a card to replace it for the rest of the session.

Avoiding damage: You can also play cards to avoid damage from an attack. The value of the card is subtracted from the damage from the attack. If you do this then you cannot draw a card to replace it for the rest of the session (in the normal Saga system, damage is determined by loss of your cards).

 

[Janx]

Another feature of using cards is that it is pretty much impossible to cheat (player) or fudge (GM). That can be a good thing or not, depending on one's point of view.

um really? there's a whole industry in Vegas to defeat cheating at cards. Every other player who's gotten into playing Hold'em has mastered the art of flipping chips and card tricks. Those are the guys to watch out for because they've mastered the dexterity and moves for dealing with those objects.

I don't want to be the threadcrapper who's anti-whatever the thread is talking about (which I'm still not clear what the point was, other than to identify games that use cards).

I have a bias against cards as I see them as not functionally better for resolving a random determination over dice. I also have a bias for just about any alternative random resolution mechanic over roll some dice, add them up, did you get above/below a target. Thats because the standard is quickly learned, quickly parsed and quickly automated. Every other design strikes me as design wankery to be different for different's sake.

There are some thematic reasons where cards make sense. I see it as a no-brainer for westerns.

And the example of the critical/fumble cards or what happens next cards is also something where dice really just wouldn't cut it.

I've seen cards in LARPs. I've never been quite happy with that as a mechanic. Oddly enough RockPaperScissors seemed pretty lightweight, and if you translate skill rankings into "best of" allowing retries, the mechanic is robust enough.