I think thee might have been playing Cyberpunk.
Still, it might be worth looking at.
A Simple and Effective Idea for the Fighter
- Thread starter Herremann the Wise
- Start date
I think thee might have been playing Cyberpunk.
Still, it might be worth looking at.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
I am strictly against the Cyberpunkisation of D&D and are those opposed to the idea...
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Well, actually I think Combat Advantage on Initiative is not that great. Even with a small attack bonus extra.
I believe one of the reasons for the fighter to have Surges is so that there is more decision-making to playing him then just deciding who to attack. Because that's all to do when you don't have powers. Surges give you a "resource" to manage and make decisions about - is this the fight where an extra action would be used well?
It's not simply about giving out bonuses so the Fighter is the better Fighter. It's about giving the Fighter playing some meaningful resources to make decisions about. It's to break the "I attack" monotony.
The new Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG gives fighters a +1/level bonus to initiative. Capped at +10, because DCC only supports 10 levels (currently).
I like it -- though I'm not entirely sure I want D&D Next to default to individual initiative.
My current Bright Idea for the new fighter is simply to give them 2 big hit die (d10 or d12) at first level. Kinda like AD&D rangers. On top of that, reserve the overnight "healing to full HP" for fighters only. We might go so far as to give them the best all-around saves.
Let fighters be defined by their ability to wade into dangerous situations that have the other classes hanging back from and approaching cautiously/cleverly. They have all the fancy options -- give a fighter a reasonable shot at facing peril head-on.
I like it -- though I'm not entirely sure I want D&D Next to default to individual initiative.
My current Bright Idea for the new fighter is simply to give them 2 big hit die (d10 or d12) at first level. Kinda like AD&D rangers. On top of that, reserve the overnight "healing to full HP" for fighters only. We might go so far as to give them the best all-around saves.
Let fighters be defined by their ability to wade into dangerous situations that have the other classes hanging back from and approaching cautiously/cleverly. They have all the fancy options -- give a fighter a reasonable shot at facing peril head-on.
As I understand it, Lamentations of the Flame Princess takes this sort of approach, but focusing on active rather than passive combat ability: only fighters get a per-level bonus to hit, which means that as levels go up, and other classes improve their various magical and other abilities, only fighters get better at actually fighting.
This is pretty similar to Rolemaster (although RM uses a skill-points-buy system, the effect of the skill costs for different classes is to bring about a situation where only dedicated warrior-types will have a meaningful ability to engage in face-to-face melee). And in Rolemaster, at least, it works in a rough-and-ready sort of way.
n00bdragon
First Post
How does this fix the fighter's essential problem that he is at best a one trick pony (hitting things with a slab of metal)? So he can be useless even faster?
Ahnehnois
First Post
Assuming for a second the veracity of this rather extreme viewpoint, what would fix that?
I think the OP was trying to fix one class ability, not rewrite D&D.
Campbell
Relaxed Intensity
There are pretty much two options
- You can create more interesting combat mechanics that fighter types have the best means of interacting with. RuneQuest's combat action and maneuver mechanics are pretty representative.
- You can provide discrete mechanical abilities that are tied to some form of a resource to manage. It need not be as broad as 4e's Daily/Encounter framework. Exalted's charm and essence mechanics are a prime example.
Another option I didn't list would take the opposite tack. For groups that aren't as interested in nitty gritty resource management you could generalize spell casting mechanics so they aren't as mechanically delimited. Take a HeroQuest style tack where everyone uses a more general mechanic and you don't nail things down so strongly.
Yet another way to manage things would be to set up the magic system so it was useful on the operational level, but not of much use once combat starts.
The general idea is that game mechanics should share the same level of interest for all character types or at least have the possibility of being more detailed for warrior types during combat. The game shouldn't be more boring for fighter types then caster types when its highlighting their area of expertise. It's not strictly about power level. If the only meaningful decisions I can make in my area of expertise are on the target selection basis when the game is highlighting what I do best I'm not apt to be very satisfied. D&D can do better than that.
The Little Raven
First Post
I think it's a good idea to add to the fighter, not replacing anything like Ahnehnois suggests.
Stormonu
NeoGrognard
I think the initiative advantage is an interesting trait; something to think about.
Especially if the rogue has some way of inflicting initiative disadvantage on opponents he sneaks up on or otherwise "surprises".
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In Chronicles of Ramlar, there was a sort of action point system called momentum. It was a system where as the heroes accumulated successes, they got "better and better" and use it to unleash powerful attacks, cast mightier spells and such. The more momentum you built up, the better moves and whatnot you could accomplish, possibly allowing you to finish a foe with a lot of pizzaz and flash.
If the fighter could somehow draw on this - perhaps if he strikes an opponent, on his next attack he automatically gains advantage. As long as he chains successful attacks, his chance of hitting is continuously improved. Miss, or stop fighting, and the fighter has to start over again.
Possibly, "momentum" could be expanded for the fighter to do other things - regenerate a small amount of hit points (a "second wind"), take an extra action or some other benefit.
I think Iron Heroes had something similar with it's token rules.
Especially if the rogue has some way of inflicting initiative disadvantage on opponents he sneaks up on or otherwise "surprises".
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In Chronicles of Ramlar, there was a sort of action point system called momentum. It was a system where as the heroes accumulated successes, they got "better and better" and use it to unleash powerful attacks, cast mightier spells and such. The more momentum you built up, the better moves and whatnot you could accomplish, possibly allowing you to finish a foe with a lot of pizzaz and flash.
If the fighter could somehow draw on this - perhaps if he strikes an opponent, on his next attack he automatically gains advantage. As long as he chains successful attacks, his chance of hitting is continuously improved. Miss, or stop fighting, and the fighter has to start over again.
Possibly, "momentum" could be expanded for the fighter to do other things - regenerate a small amount of hit points (a "second wind"), take an extra action or some other benefit.
I think Iron Heroes had something similar with it's token rules.
Crazy Jerome
First Post
[MENTION=52734]Stormonu[/MENTION], I think that objections to the "do some damage on a miss" mechanics have somewhat closed off a fertile area to explore--namely, a fighter buidling up tokens or other options as they miss--not to do small damage now, but to cash in later.
I see it this way. If the fighter is on a streak of luck and hitting every round, then he is bringing down the hurt. So he'll be pretty happy with his simple attacks. However, if he starts missing all the time--bad luck, tough monster to hit, environmental conditions, etc.--then the player gets frustrated. He doesn't have an option to change the situation up. (The big exception is DM-adjudicated stunts the fighter may try, which will obviously vary wildly frrom game to game.)
Tokens gained on a miss means that a frustrated fighter is getting ready to take it out on some poor monster. The longer the drought, the more spectacular the payoff.
I see it this way. If the fighter is on a streak of luck and hitting every round, then he is bringing down the hurt. So he'll be pretty happy with his simple attacks. However, if he starts missing all the time--bad luck, tough monster to hit, environmental conditions, etc.--then the player gets frustrated. He doesn't have an option to change the situation up. (The big exception is DM-adjudicated stunts the fighter may try, which will obviously vary wildly frrom game to game.)
Tokens gained on a miss means that a frustrated fighter is getting ready to take it out on some poor monster. The longer the drought, the more spectacular the payoff.
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